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This [1] article explains another big reason: > The appetite for killing rhinos to saw off their horn is fuelled by demand in the far east, which has risen as

by nacs 11y ago

This [1] article explains another big reason: > The appetite for killing rhinos to saw off their horn is fuelled by demand in the far east, which has risen as countries such as Vietnam, one of the biggest consumers of rhino horn, and China have become more prosperous. > Rhino horn is made of keratin, the same material as human toenails, but an unfounded belief that it cures everything from hangovers to cancer and can serve as an aphrodisiac, has fed demand and sent prices soaring to an estimated $75,000 (£50,000) a kilo. [1]: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/apr/27/ol-pejeta-kenya-sudan-worlds-last-male-northern-white-rhinoceros http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/apr/27/ol-pejeta...

VLM 11y ago
"Rhino horn is made of keratin, the same material as human toenails" And hair and fingernails and .. Which brings up the obvious point that the best way to "save the rhino" is to gather about 1000 pounds of nail clippings, grind them up, and put them on ebay as counterfeit rhino horn. That'll poison the marketplace (something we're pretty good at) which will help ruin the profitability of rhino poaching, and it'll also kill the price, changing rhino poaching from "a worthwhile risk with the possible reward of a zillion bucks" to "an idiotic risk with little return" The governments and activists involved should be flooding the market with counterfeit rhino horn today, if they really cared about the rhino.
- Kluny 11y ago
  See the comment above yours, please.
  - VLM 11y ago
    Hmm good point, but the argument stands, all good conservationists should be flooding ebay with "genuine rhino horn pocket knives" made out of cow horns.
- jules 11y ago
  Did you know that bread contains a product made from keratin (cysteine)? Most of it is counterfeit: it's claimed to be from duck feathers, but it's actually made from human hair collected mainly from Chinese barbers.
  - jules 11y ago
    Just out of curiosity: do people downvote this because they think it's false, or because of another reason?
    - VLM 11y ago
      Probably epic chemistry fail. Its like saying there's grass in my cheezeburger because some of the amino acids in grass proteins end up reassembled as muscle proteins in cow muscle. Not only that, but aside from the biochem obviously every single carbon atom in the cow came from grass. Real cows eat grass not corn which is a whole nother topic and there are some lipid (fatty oily) issues. This can obviously be abstracted to my innards are grass, because the amino acids in the cow were consumed and re-arranged into programmer pot belly and my stylish hair do. (glances down at my hairy belly) yes you are grass aren't you... The other epic fail is there's real food, then there's bread, and finally at the bottom of the barrel theres not-even-bread. And the worst of the chemically preserved artificial bread shaped stuff may include various peculiar preservative compounds. But when I eat junk food like bread, I eat the good stuff. So, no, "bread" is not a singular atom or compound or food, and only the cruddy stuff is full of preservatives of weird sources.
      - jules 11y ago
        This "epic chemistry fail" is a strawman. I did not say there's hair in bread. I said there's cysteine in bread, cysteine which is made from keratin from human hair. Quite obviously it's not in all bread, but you'll find it in most if not all industrial bread and even in many local bakeries (you won't find it in a good bakery though). The actual chemical process for extracting cysteine is boiling the hair in hydrochloric acid, which separates it into other stuff and a white powder, which is the cysteine. Whether you personally eat that bread is not very relevant for this discussion, but for what it's worth, I personally think that whether cysteine is made from duck feathers or from human hair is irrelevant, it's chemically the same molecule. I generally bake my own bread, but when I don't I have no qualms about eating bread with cysteine in it, and if my own bread would taste better with cysteine I would put it in. Scary chemicals are just a label people put on things, salt is a scary chemical too when you call it natrium chloride. Duly noted that HN prefers not to learn such factoids though =)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
eosrei 11y ago
Douglas argues against the aphrodisiac myth: > There is a widespread myth about what people want rhino horns for - in fact two myths. The first myth is that ground rhino horn is an aphrodisiac. This, I think it's safe to say, is just what it appears to be - superstition. It has little to do with any known medical fact, and probably a lot to do with the fact that a rhino's horn is a big sticky-up hard thing. > The second myth is that anyone actually believes the first myth. > It was probably the invention of a journalist, or at best a misunderstanding. It's easy to see where the idea came from when you consider the variety of things that the Chinese, for example, believe to be aphrodisiacs, which include the brain of a monkey, the tongue of a sparrow, the human placenta, the penis of a white horse, rabbit hair from old brushes, and the dried sexual parts of a male tiger soaked in a bottle of European brandy for six months. A big sticky-up hard thing like a rhinoceros horn would seem to be a natural for such a list, though it's perhaps harder to understand, in this context, why grinding the thing down would be such an attractive idea. The fact is that there is no actual evidence to suggest that the Chinese do believe rhino horn to be an aphrodisiac. The only people who do believe it are people who've read somewhere that other people believe it, and are ready and willing to believe anything they hear that they like the sound of. > There is no known trade in rhino horn for the purposes of aphrodisia. (This, like most things, is no longer strictly true. It is now known that there are a couple of people in Northern India who use it, but they only do it to annoy.) > Much horn is used in traditional medicine in the Far East, but a major part of the trade in rhino horn is caused by something much more absurd, and it's this: fashion. Dagger handles made of rhinoceros horn are an extremely fashionable item of male jewellery in the Yemen. > That's it: costume jewellery Further arguments against on: https://www.savetherhino.org/rhino_info/threats_to_rhino/poaching_for_rhino_horn https://www.savetherhino.org/rhino_info/threats_to_rhino/poa... Update: Argh! From savetherhino.org: > There is a belief in the West that rhino horn is used as an aphrodisiac and sexual stimulant but this is not correct and seems to have been misunderstood or misinterpreted by Western media. However, research has shown that people in Vietnam are starting to believe this rumour as they are consuming it for new reasons. Great.
- bobbles 11y ago
  > The only people who do believe it are people who've read somewhere that other people believe it, and are ready and willing to believe anything they hear that they like the sound of. Is there a name for this? Because it seems pretty widespread across almost every controversial topic. (e.g. "public outcry" against X, that never existed, can still get knee-jerk reactions from governments, people, etc.)

by nacs 11y ago

VLM 11y ago

"Rhino horn is made of keratin, the same material as human toenails" And hair and fingernails and .. Which brings up the obvious point that the best way to "save the rhino" is to gather about 1000 pounds of nail clippings, grind them up, and put them on ebay as counterfeit rhino horn. That'll poison the marketplace (something we're pretty good at) which will help ruin the profitability of rhino poaching, and it'll also kill the price, changing rhino poaching from "a worthwhile risk with the possible reward of a zillion bucks" to "an idiotic risk with little return" The governments and activists involved should be flooding the market with counterfeit rhino horn today, if they really cared about the rhino.

Kluny 11y ago
See the comment above yours, please.
- VLM 11y ago
  Hmm good point, but the argument stands, all good conservationists should be flooding ebay with "genuine rhino horn pocket knives" made out of cow horns.
jules 11y ago
Did you know that bread contains a product made from keratin (cysteine)? Most of it is counterfeit: it's claimed to be from duck feathers, but it's actually made from human hair collected mainly from Chinese barbers.
- jules 11y ago
  Just out of curiosity: do people downvote this because they think it's false, or because of another reason?
  - VLM 11y ago
    Probably epic chemistry fail. Its like saying there's grass in my cheezeburger because some of the amino acids in grass proteins end up reassembled as muscle proteins in cow muscle. Not only that, but aside from the biochem obviously every single carbon atom in the cow came from grass. Real cows eat grass not corn which is a whole nother topic and there are some lipid (fatty oily) issues. This can obviously be abstracted to my innards are grass, because the amino acids in the cow were consumed and re-arranged into programmer pot belly and my stylish hair do. (glances down at my hairy belly) yes you are grass aren't you... The other epic fail is there's real food, then there's bread, and finally at the bottom of the barrel theres not-even-bread. And the worst of the chemically preserved artificial bread shaped stuff may include various peculiar preservative compounds. But when I eat junk food like bread, I eat the good stuff. So, no, "bread" is not a singular atom or compound or food, and only the cruddy stuff is full of preservatives of weird sources.
    - jules 11y ago
      This "epic chemistry fail" is a strawman. I did not say there's hair in bread. I said there's cysteine in bread, cysteine which is made from keratin from human hair. Quite obviously it's not in all bread, but you'll find it in most if not all industrial bread and even in many local bakeries (you won't find it in a good bakery though). The actual chemical process for extracting cysteine is boiling the hair in hydrochloric acid, which separates it into other stuff and a white powder, which is the cysteine. Whether you personally eat that bread is not very relevant for this discussion, but for what it's worth, I personally think that whether cysteine is made from duck feathers or from human hair is irrelevant, it's chemically the same molecule. I generally bake my own bread, but when I don't I have no qualms about eating bread with cysteine in it, and if my own bread would taste better with cysteine I would put it in. Scary chemicals are just a label people put on things, salt is a scary chemical too when you call it natrium chloride. Duly noted that HN prefers not to learn such factoids though =)
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

eosrei 11y ago

Douglas argues against the aphrodisiac myth: > There is a widespread myth about what people want rhino horns for - in fact two myths. The first myth is that ground rhino horn is an aphrodisiac. This, I think it's safe to say, is just what it appears to be - superstition. It has little to do with any known medical fact, and probably a lot to do with the fact that a rhino's horn is a big sticky-up hard thing. > The second myth is that anyone actually believes the first myth. > It was probably the invention of a journalist, or at best a misunderstanding. It's easy to see where the idea came from when you consider the variety of things that the Chinese, for example, believe to be aphrodisiacs, which include the brain of a monkey, the tongue of a sparrow, the human placenta, the penis of a white horse, rabbit hair from old brushes, and the dried sexual parts of a male tiger soaked in a bottle of European brandy for six months. A big sticky-up hard thing like a rhinoceros horn would seem to be a natural for such a list, though it's perhaps harder to understand, in this context, why grinding the thing down would be such an attractive idea. The fact is that there is no actual evidence to suggest that the Chinese do believe rhino horn to be an aphrodisiac. The only people who do believe it are people who've read somewhere that other people believe it, and are ready and willing to believe anything they hear that they like the sound of. > There is no known trade in rhino horn for the purposes of aphrodisia. (This, like most things, is no longer strictly true. It is now known that there are a couple of people in Northern India who use it, but they only do it to annoy.) > Much horn is used in traditional medicine in the Far East, but a major part of the trade in rhino horn is caused by something much more absurd, and it's this: fashion. Dagger handles made of rhinoceros horn are an extremely fashionable item of male jewellery in the Yemen. > That's it: costume jewellery Further arguments against on: https://www.savetherhino.org/rhino_info/threats_to_rhino/poaching_for_rhino_horn https://www.savetherhino.org/rhino_info/threats_to_rhino/poa... Update: Argh! From savetherhino.org: > There is a belief in the West that rhino horn is used as an aphrodisiac and sexual stimulant but this is not correct and seems to have been misunderstood or misinterpreted by Western media. However, research has shown that people in Vietnam are starting to believe this rumour as they are consuming it for new reasons. Great.

bobbles 11y ago
> The only people who do believe it are people who've read somewhere that other people believe it, and are ready and willing to believe anything they hear that they like the sound of. Is there a name for this? Because it seems pretty widespread across almost every controversial topic. (e.g. "public outcry" against X, that never existed, can still get knee-jerk reactions from governments, people, etc.)