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I live in downtown Los Angeles. In my community of buildings all tenants were served letters that threatened eviction if we put our place up on Airbnb. It is sp

I live in downtown Los Angeles. In my community of buildings all tenants were served letters that threatened eviction if we put our place up on Airbnb. It is specifically outlined in majority of our leases. Several people I know have been evicted as a result. Regulations aren't even needed some buildings are just taking care of this issue on their own. For my specific building and as a renter, I'm okay with there being no Airbnb places.

ceejayoz 11y ago
> Regulations aren't even needed some buildings are just taking care of this issue on their own. Some buildings won't take care of it (especially in situations where people are buying whole buildings to rent out), leaving their neighbors without much recourse without regulation.
- shampine 11y ago
  Oh I know this is true and I definitely didn't mean it as a blanket statement. But it seems for most of the historic core neighborhood that the buildings are enforcing their own leases/rules.
- chatmasta 11y ago
  If people are buying whole buildings to rent out, what argument do the neighbors have for shutting down airbnb activity? I understand the argument for apartment buildings. If someone in your building buys/rents a unit, then puts it on airbnb, they decrease your security because strangers are going in and out of the building. I do not understand the argument for an entire building. If I own a building, it should be my right to decide who stays there. As long as the airbnb guests are not throwing wild ragers, I don't see what argument the neighbors could have.
  - ceejayoz 11y ago
    > If people are buying whole buildings to rent out, what argument do the neighbors have for shutting down airbnb activity? Most cities require hotels go through a permitting and approval process, usually in part to ensure things like security, parking, etc. are accounted for, and only allow them in certain areas zoned for such commercial usage.
  - Mikeb85 11y ago
    > I do not understand the argument for an entire building. Then you're running a hotel. And there are rules for that. Including zoning restrictions.
    - wlesieutre 11y ago
      Right, residents of adjacent (or even nearby) properties would have an issue with it. Same as if I bought an apartment building and started using it as a factory. It's exactly why we have zoning. A whole rented building has the same problems (loud guests, people abusing shared spaces, etc) as a single apartment rented to short-term guests, but on a larger scale.
  - geebee 11y ago
    Think of it this way: I would like to trade my right to run a hotel out of my house in exchange for a legally enforced expectation that my neighbors won't do this either. This is the kind of neighborhood I would like to live in. I don't demand that every neighborhood be like this, but it's what I choose for myself. Yes, this will require some restrictions on how people can use their properties in some places. Keep in mind, though, that this arrangement is only possible with some sort of law or community regulation. Without this, any single individual can come in and deny this choice to everyone else living there. I'd say that if it is very important to you to be able to short term rent your apartment or house, you should buy one in a community where it is legal. You should not impose this choice on neighbors who chose to live where it is not legal.
JOnAgain 11y ago
I totally agree with this from a renters perspective. From an owners perspective, though, I should be able to do what I want with my house or condo.
- datasage 11y ago
  Generally with a condo you have less freedom than you do if you buy a house with no common areas. Hotels are prepared to deal with problems that tenants may cause. Locks are re-programmable between stays. Security, housekeeping and maintenance people on staff. Etc. In a condo building, any problems caused in the common areas are going to end up being the responsibility of the association. Which is generally going to be ill equipped and probably unwilling to deal with any issues since they are getting no benefit from it.
- tptacek 11y ago
  You probably don't really believe that. For instance, if you buy a house in a sleepy residential neighborhood, you probably don't really believe it's reasonable to convert it into a noisy 24/7 tool and die shop. The interesting question is, where do you draw the line at what should and shouldn't be regulated?
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > The interesting question is, where do you draw the line at what should and shouldn't be regulated? Community consensus, which as luck would have it, is fairly easy to come to on a local geographic level.
    - BinaryIdiot 11y ago
      > Community consensus, which as luck would have it, is fairly easy to come to on a local geographic level. Unfortunately that's not really sustainable. For instance let's say the community agreed that you can turn your home into a noisy 24/7 tool and die shop. Now 5 years past and half of the neighborhood has different home owners in it (quick turnaround for moving half a community but I've seen crazier things). Now the entire community wants them GONE. Do we say it's okay one year then a few years later go "oh sorry but you can't do your business here anymore"? Moving or even closing up could cost the business owner a substantial amount of money not to mention the loss of customers now not necessarily knowing they moved, etc. Point being while I don't know where the line is for regulating and not regulating something I also don't think community consensus is a silver bullet. Really not sure about a solution here.
larrys 11y ago
"Regulations aren't even needed some buildings are just taking care of this issue on their own. " Not necessarily. In some cases the ability to have tenants able to rent out their units will allow the landlord to charge more rent for that unit, because the tenant is able to offset the rent. That is good for the landlord, but not good for the other residents who are bothered by the short term rental activity. As others point out it can also add to an increase in rental costs by creating artificial price pressure since tenants can afford to pay more.
- shampine 11y ago
  I agree with that, but if I owned a building and my renters were using Airbnb, my assumed liability and risk on the property is probably skyrocketing. Also the wear and tear on the property is probably going to accelerate.
wahsd 11y ago
See, that's a bit different I think. You seem to be talking about subletting. Whether you agree that people should be allowed to sublet or not, it is part of all leases I have ever heard of. I think the discussion comes around to controlling people's activities within their homes and on their land. If you own a home no one should be allowed to tell you who you can and cannot have over to your house and what type of home business you operate. If they want to regulate something, which may be necessary, simply enforce already existing regulations and policies regarding noise and disruption. Who is the local government to tell you for how long you can or cannot rent out your home to to someone. Are they going to crack down on renting out a loft to a student too?
- shampine 11y ago
  My lease covers both subletting and short term rentals. It also covers anyone living there who is not named on the lease, even if I am living there.
- jasonlotito 11y ago
  > If you own a home no one should be allowed to tell you who you can and cannot have over to your house and what type of home business you operate. So your issue is with zoning laws. So, if you buy a building in a zone that allows you to run an AirBnB-type business, would you be okay with the zone changing after you've made your purchase? Because your asking the residents of these spaces to accept the opposite.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  >If you own a home no one should be allowed to tell you who you can and cannot have over to your house and what type of home business you operate. The congress can. [The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; So ... if it is from other state and money exchange hands - you are under its authority.
- rodgerd 11y ago
  So if you decide to have a few hundred people in your yard for a rave every night, or operate a burning tyre business, that's no-one's concern but your own?

ceejayoz 11y ago

> Regulations aren't even needed some buildings are just taking care of this issue on their own. Some buildings won't take care of it (especially in situations where people are buying whole buildings to rent out), leaving their neighbors without much recourse without regulation.

shampine 11y ago
Oh I know this is true and I definitely didn't mean it as a blanket statement. But it seems for most of the historic core neighborhood that the buildings are enforcing their own leases/rules.
chatmasta 11y ago
If people are buying whole buildings to rent out, what argument do the neighbors have for shutting down airbnb activity? I understand the argument for apartment buildings. If someone in your building buys/rents a unit, then puts it on airbnb, they decrease your security because strangers are going in and out of the building. I do not understand the argument for an entire building. If I own a building, it should be my right to decide who stays there. As long as the airbnb guests are not throwing wild ragers, I don't see what argument the neighbors could have.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  > If people are buying whole buildings to rent out, what argument do the neighbors have for shutting down airbnb activity? Most cities require hotels go through a permitting and approval process, usually in part to ensure things like security, parking, etc. are accounted for, and only allow them in certain areas zoned for such commercial usage.
- Mikeb85 11y ago
  > I do not understand the argument for an entire building. Then you're running a hotel. And there are rules for that. Including zoning restrictions.
  - wlesieutre 11y ago
    Right, residents of adjacent (or even nearby) properties would have an issue with it. Same as if I bought an apartment building and started using it as a factory. It's exactly why we have zoning. A whole rented building has the same problems (loud guests, people abusing shared spaces, etc) as a single apartment rented to short-term guests, but on a larger scale.
- geebee 11y ago
  Think of it this way: I would like to trade my right to run a hotel out of my house in exchange for a legally enforced expectation that my neighbors won't do this either. This is the kind of neighborhood I would like to live in. I don't demand that every neighborhood be like this, but it's what I choose for myself. Yes, this will require some restrictions on how people can use their properties in some places. Keep in mind, though, that this arrangement is only possible with some sort of law or community regulation. Without this, any single individual can come in and deny this choice to everyone else living there. I'd say that if it is very important to you to be able to short term rent your apartment or house, you should buy one in a community where it is legal. You should not impose this choice on neighbors who chose to live where it is not legal.

JOnAgain 11y ago

I totally agree with this from a renters perspective. From an owners perspective, though, I should be able to do what I want with my house or condo.

datasage 11y ago
Generally with a condo you have less freedom than you do if you buy a house with no common areas. Hotels are prepared to deal with problems that tenants may cause. Locks are re-programmable between stays. Security, housekeeping and maintenance people on staff. Etc. In a condo building, any problems caused in the common areas are going to end up being the responsibility of the association. Which is generally going to be ill equipped and probably unwilling to deal with any issues since they are getting no benefit from it.
tptacek 11y ago
You probably don't really believe that. For instance, if you buy a house in a sleepy residential neighborhood, you probably don't really believe it's reasonable to convert it into a noisy 24/7 tool and die shop. The interesting question is, where do you draw the line at what should and shouldn't be regulated?
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > The interesting question is, where do you draw the line at what should and shouldn't be regulated? Community consensus, which as luck would have it, is fairly easy to come to on a local geographic level.
  - BinaryIdiot 11y ago
    > Community consensus, which as luck would have it, is fairly easy to come to on a local geographic level. Unfortunately that's not really sustainable. For instance let's say the community agreed that you can turn your home into a noisy 24/7 tool and die shop. Now 5 years past and half of the neighborhood has different home owners in it (quick turnaround for moving half a community but I've seen crazier things). Now the entire community wants them GONE. Do we say it's okay one year then a few years later go "oh sorry but you can't do your business here anymore"? Moving or even closing up could cost the business owner a substantial amount of money not to mention the loss of customers now not necessarily knowing they moved, etc. Point being while I don't know where the line is for regulating and not regulating something I also don't think community consensus is a silver bullet. Really not sure about a solution here.

larrys 11y ago

"Regulations aren't even needed some buildings are just taking care of this issue on their own. " Not necessarily. In some cases the ability to have tenants able to rent out their units will allow the landlord to charge more rent for that unit, because the tenant is able to offset the rent. That is good for the landlord, but not good for the other residents who are bothered by the short term rental activity. As others point out it can also add to an increase in rental costs by creating artificial price pressure since tenants can afford to pay more.

shampine 11y ago
I agree with that, but if I owned a building and my renters were using Airbnb, my assumed liability and risk on the property is probably skyrocketing. Also the wear and tear on the property is probably going to accelerate.

wahsd 11y ago

See, that's a bit different I think. You seem to be talking about subletting. Whether you agree that people should be allowed to sublet or not, it is part of all leases I have ever heard of. I think the discussion comes around to controlling people's activities within their homes and on their land. If you own a home no one should be allowed to tell you who you can and cannot have over to your house and what type of home business you operate. If they want to regulate something, which may be necessary, simply enforce already existing regulations and policies regarding noise and disruption. Who is the local government to tell you for how long you can or cannot rent out your home to to someone. Are they going to crack down on renting out a loft to a student too?

shampine 11y ago
My lease covers both subletting and short term rentals. It also covers anyone living there who is not named on the lease, even if I am living there.
jasonlotito 11y ago
> If you own a home no one should be allowed to tell you who you can and cannot have over to your house and what type of home business you operate. So your issue is with zoning laws. So, if you buy a building in a zone that allows you to run an AirBnB-type business, would you be okay with the zone changing after you've made your purchase? Because your asking the residents of these spaces to accept the opposite.
venomsnake 11y ago
>If you own a home no one should be allowed to tell you who you can and cannot have over to your house and what type of home business you operate. The congress can. [The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; So ... if it is from other state and money exchange hands - you are under its authority.
rodgerd 11y ago
So if you decide to have a few hundred people in your yard for a rave every night, or operate a burning tyre business, that's no-one's concern but your own?