4 ms·

IT talent shortage, or management failure?

15 points by iamelgringo 19y ago

sbraford 19y ago
Management failure.
- BrandonM 19y ago
  Did you read the article? That's what the author was saying, and I think he hit the nail on the head.
angstrom 19y ago
It's a two way street. Some employees keep their heads down and don't speak up about what's broken with the system or suggest better alternatives. They give up and say "Why isn't management doing something different?" when they should be notifying management that there is a problem. If management ignores it then it's completely a management problem.
ojbyrne 19y ago
They forgot to mention the rampant age discrimination. Why would any intelligent person go into a career where you basically become unemployable at 40?
- queensnake 19y ago
  As a recent over-40, I haven't hit anything yet, and I wonder how long it'll be and how hard. Care to share your experience? It doesn't need to be an essay, just, a couple examples. I can only say, at this late stage I wish I'd gone into some physical engineering instead, chemical or electrical, something with hard /science/. I doubt I'll get to make such a transition, or well, would find it hard to finance and might find it not worthwhile at this late stage. I suppose robotics might be an avenue to explore, that'll get big before too long. But back to the topic, I'll take any experience you have on what to expect.
  - ojbyrne 19y ago
    It's hard for me to come up with examples that would be relevant to you and that I can talk about, probably because it is illegal in the US (so they're careful). When I lived in Europe I would do a lot of telephone interviews, and in general people were impressed, but invariably they would end with "We just need one more thing - we need your date of birth for our records." I'd give that and there would be no callback. Once I lied about my birth date (a friend had told me that european laws allowed that). It resulted in the first offer I got during that search. The company I worked for (in Europe) at that time asked if they could put my age down as 39 (I was 40 at the time) on their about page. I can't really say that my latest experience was entirely about age, but it was unpleasant. Google my name (Owen Byrne) and it will be obvious. I built a fairly prominent website. Chances are you've heard of my "co-founders." but not me.
    - ojbyrne 19y ago
      Oh, hell. Lawyers ain't going to do anything about me mentioning the site. http://digg.com http://digg.com. You have probably heard of it.
    - angstrom 19y ago
      Not surprising, Tom Anderson lost 5 years. In this profession the media loves to focus on the early bloomers.
    - Tichy 19y ago
      So maybe "startup young" really is the wrong way to go? Would perhaps be better to earn as much money as possible as an under 40 person, and then go about startupping from 40 onwards?
      - bayareaguy 19y ago
        If raising a family is important to you, your choices become more limited as you get older. Biology is destiny.
        19y ago
- utnick 19y ago
  There probably is age discrimination against people over 40. But, I also feel like there is age discrimination against people in their 20s. Most companies won't take a flyer on you if you don't have X years of professional experience, and its impossible to have that X number when you are in your early 20s. And 10 years of experience people get paid twice as much as 3 yrs of experience people regardless of talent. I wish there was a way to create a standardized hacker test.
queensnake 19y ago
I can only speak to #1, but dang, it's so true. I don't know what the F some companies are doing, requiring C++, Java, JavaScript and 6 other technologies (and mentioning eg ClearCase by name, WTF!). Is it that HR is deluged with irrelevant resumes, and they think that by tightening the requirements they'll get fewer? Or is it that, getting to 'wish into the void', they get a boost in vicarious self-esteem by asking for their idea of 'only the best'? (I think I've seen this once, is why this possibility occurred to me). But yeah, being conscientious I don't submit myself when I see something /required/ that I don't have. Then some recruiter will come along and say "Well, they're not so serious about that". I agree that the HR layer doesn't suit IT. One other peeve, companies that talk like they're so special: "You'll love us, we're not like the rest, everyone sits on big red chairs here!". I don't know why that bugs me, but I'd say save it for the interview / tour. At least restrain it a bit in the job ad.
paul 19y ago
If there's this huge pool of untapped talent out there, then there must be a huge opportunity for a new company to come in and hire them. The fact that so many startups are struggling to find good people suggests that this isn't the case.

15 points by iamelgringo 19y ago

sbraford 19y ago

Management failure.

BrandonM 19y ago
Did you read the article? That's what the author was saying, and I think he hit the nail on the head.

angstrom 19y ago

It's a two way street. Some employees keep their heads down and don't speak up about what's broken with the system or suggest better alternatives. They give up and say "Why isn't management doing something different?" when they should be notifying management that there is a problem. If management ignores it then it's completely a management problem.

ojbyrne 19y ago

They forgot to mention the rampant age discrimination. Why would any intelligent person go into a career where you basically become unemployable at 40?

queensnake 19y ago
As a recent over-40, I haven't hit anything yet, and I wonder how long it'll be and how hard. Care to share your experience? It doesn't need to be an essay, just, a couple examples. I can only say, at this late stage I wish I'd gone into some physical engineering instead, chemical or electrical, something with hard /science/. I doubt I'll get to make such a transition, or well, would find it hard to finance and might find it not worthwhile at this late stage. I suppose robotics might be an avenue to explore, that'll get big before too long. But back to the topic, I'll take any experience you have on what to expect.
- ojbyrne 19y ago
  It's hard for me to come up with examples that would be relevant to you and that I can talk about, probably because it is illegal in the US (so they're careful). When I lived in Europe I would do a lot of telephone interviews, and in general people were impressed, but invariably they would end with "We just need one more thing - we need your date of birth for our records." I'd give that and there would be no callback. Once I lied about my birth date (a friend had told me that european laws allowed that). It resulted in the first offer I got during that search. The company I worked for (in Europe) at that time asked if they could put my age down as 39 (I was 40 at the time) on their about page. I can't really say that my latest experience was entirely about age, but it was unpleasant. Google my name (Owen Byrne) and it will be obvious. I built a fairly prominent website. Chances are you've heard of my "co-founders." but not me.
  - ojbyrne 19y ago
    Oh, hell. Lawyers ain't going to do anything about me mentioning the site. http://digg.com http://digg.com. You have probably heard of it.
  - angstrom 19y ago
    Not surprising, Tom Anderson lost 5 years. In this profession the media loves to focus on the early bloomers.
  - Tichy 19y ago
    So maybe "startup young" really is the wrong way to go? Would perhaps be better to earn as much money as possible as an under 40 person, and then go about startupping from 40 onwards?
    - bayareaguy 19y ago
      If raising a family is important to you, your choices become more limited as you get older. Biology is destiny.
      - 19y ago
utnick 19y ago
There probably is age discrimination against people over 40. But, I also feel like there is age discrimination against people in their 20s. Most companies won't take a flyer on you if you don't have X years of professional experience, and its impossible to have that X number when you are in your early 20s. And 10 years of experience people get paid twice as much as 3 yrs of experience people regardless of talent. I wish there was a way to create a standardized hacker test.

queensnake 19y ago

I can only speak to #1, but dang, it's so true. I don't know what the F some companies are doing, requiring C++, Java, JavaScript and 6 other technologies (and mentioning eg ClearCase by name, WTF!). Is it that HR is deluged with irrelevant resumes, and they think that by tightening the requirements they'll get fewer? Or is it that, getting to 'wish into the void', they get a boost in vicarious self-esteem by asking for their idea of 'only the best'? (I think I've seen this once, is why this possibility occurred to me). But yeah, being conscientious I don't submit myself when I see something /required/ that I don't have. Then some recruiter will come along and say "Well, they're not so serious about that". I agree that the HR layer doesn't suit IT. One other peeve, companies that talk like they're so special: "You'll love us, we're not like the rest, everyone sits on big red chairs here!". I don't know why that bugs me, but I'd say save it for the interview / tour. At least restrain it a bit in the job ad.

paul 19y ago

If there's this huge pool of untapped talent out there, then there must be a huge opportunity for a new company to come in and hire them. The fact that so many startups are struggling to find good people suggests that this isn't the case.