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"[O]ne can be compiled to an independent binary that can load and run on a variety of machines. The other requires a large application infrastructure to run at

"[O]ne can be compiled to an independent binary that can load and run on a variety of machines. The other requires a large application infrastructure to run at all." That seems more a matter of current tooling, not anything about the languages themselves. Did Java only become a programming language when someone wrote a compiler to machine code? Is perl more in the same category as C or as HTML? Quite a few languages dynamically link a runtime, and most are dependent on OS facilities that could be extended to handle HTML.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
HTML will never run standalone, right? Its designed to run in a very rich environment.
- dllthomas 12y ago
  I don't see the environment for an HTML page being richer, in any sense at all, then the environment for a Java program. Especially if we are not considering javascript to be a part of html. To be clear, I emphatically agree that html is not a programming language, I just don't think this is getting at why.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    I wonder if its something like the arguments for why humans are different from animals (e.g. opposable thumb; tool maker; language). We keep casting about for things; they keep getting disproved. Maybe its not a worthwhile categorization.
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      My view is that HTML is not a "programming language" because it was not designed for programming, and isn't very good at it. C isn't a markup language because it wasn't designed for adding presentational and organizational context to information, and it isn't very good at it. Some markup languages let you do some programming, and vice-versa. There are also some candidates for being considered both a programming language and a markup language. HTML, absent js, doesn't seem to be one of these.
      - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        But that's circular, right? HTML isn't a programming language, because you can't program. Maybe its like pornography; you know it when you see it.
        dllthomas 12y ago
        It is only circular if we define programming by reference to programming languages. To be honest, I am not sure precisely how I would define programming. A first attempt would be "structuring events and computation, often by reference to future input". As with most definitions outside mathematics, it's going to be fuzzy. Edited to add: Note that with this framework, whether you are programming is not determined by what language you are using.
- brudgers 12y ago
  If Hello World is output, what difference does The route from source code to execution make in regard to its effect? BTW,it is practical to compile the HTML into machine code. MIT/GNU Scheme could be used to do the trick.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago

HTML will never run standalone, right? Its designed to run in a very rich environment.

dllthomas 12y ago
I don't see the environment for an HTML page being richer, in any sense at all, then the environment for a Java program. Especially if we are not considering javascript to be a part of html. To be clear, I emphatically agree that html is not a programming language, I just don't think this is getting at why.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  I wonder if its something like the arguments for why humans are different from animals (e.g. opposable thumb; tool maker; language). We keep casting about for things; they keep getting disproved. Maybe its not a worthwhile categorization.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    My view is that HTML is not a "programming language" because it was not designed for programming, and isn't very good at it. C isn't a markup language because it wasn't designed for adding presentational and organizational context to information, and it isn't very good at it. Some markup languages let you do some programming, and vice-versa. There are also some candidates for being considered both a programming language and a markup language. HTML, absent js, doesn't seem to be one of these.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      But that's circular, right? HTML isn't a programming language, because you can't program. Maybe its like pornography; you know it when you see it.
      - dllthomas 12y ago
        It is only circular if we define programming by reference to programming languages. To be honest, I am not sure precisely how I would define programming. A first attempt would be "structuring events and computation, often by reference to future input". As with most definitions outside mathematics, it's going to be fuzzy. Edited to add: Note that with this framework, whether you are programming is not determined by what language you are using.
brudgers 12y ago
If Hello World is output, what difference does The route from source code to execution make in regard to its effect? BTW,it is practical to compile the HTML into machine code. MIT/GNU Scheme could be used to do the trick.