4 ms·

> Adria Richards did a lot of wrong when she tried to ruin someone else's life Since ludicrous lies like yours are so common, I feel compelled to reiterate tha

> Adria Richards did a lot of wrong when she tried to ruin someone else's life Since ludicrous lies like yours are so common, I feel compelled to reiterate that the sum total of what Ms. Richards did was say something was "not cool" and ask the convention organizers "Can someone talk to these guys about their conduct?" Those two direct quotes are the complete entirety of her actions against them.

deleted 11y ago
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Dewie3 11y ago
Saying that it was "not cool" on social media, causing a shit-storm (hence, mob morality). She could have just notified the organizers and have them deal with it, and be done with it. Maybe talk to the guys if she felt comfortable with that, but obviously she didn't. I don't hold that against her. But instead she had to go the extra mile and tweet it in a state of fury and indignant rage. Sharing/shaming people on social media in order to get revenge; always an advisable move. Like being drunk and deciding that you should give that guy who you've always had a problem with "a piece of your mind". But surely, she couldn't have foreseen that sharing something like that might cost one of the guys his job? Except her job had to do with PR and social media. Come on; she knew what she was doing. She knows what kind of power having many followers on Twitter grants you. She knows how touchy this whole gender/women/tech topic is. And she wasn't sorry about it later. Well, that was a nice trip down memory lane...
- humanrebar 11y ago
  > Maybe talk to the guys if she felt comfortable with that, but obviously she didn't. I don't hold that against her. I do. They weren't going to assault her in public or anything. I'll bet a donut against a Kobe steak that if she (or a friend of hers) politely told those guys that she could hear them and that they were being disrespectful, they would blush and stop with the puerile jokes.
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Aqueous 11y ago
I think you have left out an important detail: She did so on Twitter. Because it was on Twitter, at least one was (at least temporarily) let go from their job (and has 3 kids). Neither were given any opportunity to apologize, or to explain the perceived offense. In that moment, she acted foolishly and irresponsibly and most importantly publicly, without any regard for the lives of the people she was acting against. [1] https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681
- jellicle 11y ago
  > Because Well, no. Because some manager somewhere decided to do something, something happened. Ms. Richards had nothing to do with it. It is really fascinating how you've avoided putting the slightest blame on the employer here. What ability does Ms. Richards have to control the employer's employment actions? Your statement is also utterly false. PyCon met with the individuals at the time, who apologized for their vulgar remarks. Of course, the one then later posted to HN, apologizing again but blaming his woes on Richards instead of his dumb employer, which started the whole witch-hunt, so perhaps his apology was not entirely sincere. In case you aren't used to thinking in these terms, the legal profession provides some guides. One of them is proximate cause. Was the action of calling an action "not cool" sufficiently close to the action of a person Ms. Richards never met or spoke to in firing the developer as to be the cause of that firing? And further, was the result reasonably foreseeable by an average person at the time? Does it often happen that calling something "not cool" results in the object of the remark being fired?
  - Aqueous 11y ago
    There's plenty of blame to go around. The individual who was fired said "As a result of the picture she took I was let go from my job today. Which sucks because I have 3 kids and I really liked that job." That certainly seems to be drawing a causal link between the picture being taken / Tweeted, and the firing. Is that not accurate or are there details that I haven't understood? I would agree with you if it wasn't clear that the entire purpose of the Tweet (with picture) was public shaming. She knew the audience (her thousands of followers) and she knew their possible (even likely) reaction. That was the whole point. She took a semi-public, fundamentally local act and made it completely public and potentially global. That does not seem to be a proportionate reaction to the offense. She should have known about the public fallout this could have on the employees and their employer. As a PR professional Adria Richards is / ought to be fully aware of what she puts out into the world and the potential consequences of putting it out there. "PyCon met with the individuals at the time, who apologized for their vulgar remarks." But not before Adria Richards had already tweeted a picture of the offenders. Neither were given a chance to apologize before Adria Richards made the split-second decision to go completely public.
DanBC 11y ago
(I upvoted you) She has gone on to say that she's not sorry for what happened to the two guys and that they deserved it, and that she is unrepentant about the whole thing. Reasonable people feel a bit shocked by that. The guy should not have made that comment; she should not have made a public comment about them; a pitch-forked mob should not have caused him and then her to lose their jobs; but after all that it is kind of odd to hear her say that the disruption and chaos is an acceptable result of him making a stupid joke at an inappropriate time.

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Dewie3 11y ago

Saying that it was "not cool" on social media, causing a shit-storm (hence, mob morality). She could have just notified the organizers and have them deal with it, and be done with it. Maybe talk to the guys if she felt comfortable with that, but obviously she didn't. I don't hold that against her. But instead she had to go the extra mile and tweet it in a state of fury and indignant rage. Sharing/shaming people on social media in order to get revenge; always an advisable move. Like being drunk and deciding that you should give that guy who you've always had a problem with "a piece of your mind". But surely, she couldn't have foreseen that sharing something like that might cost one of the guys his job? Except her job had to do with PR and social media. Come on; she knew what she was doing. She knows what kind of power having many followers on Twitter grants you. She knows how touchy this whole gender/women/tech topic is. And she wasn't sorry about it later. Well, that was a nice trip down memory lane...

humanrebar 11y ago
> Maybe talk to the guys if she felt comfortable with that, but obviously she didn't. I don't hold that against her. I do. They weren't going to assault her in public or anything. I'll bet a donut against a Kobe steak that if she (or a friend of hers) politely told those guys that she could hear them and that they were being disrespectful, they would blush and stop with the puerile jokes.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

Aqueous 11y ago

I think you have left out an important detail: She did so on Twitter. Because it was on Twitter, at least one was (at least temporarily) let go from their job (and has 3 kids). Neither were given any opportunity to apologize, or to explain the perceived offense. In that moment, she acted foolishly and irresponsibly and most importantly publicly, without any regard for the lives of the people she was acting against. [1] https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681

jellicle 11y ago
> Because Well, no. Because some manager somewhere decided to do something, something happened. Ms. Richards had nothing to do with it. It is really fascinating how you've avoided putting the slightest blame on the employer here. What ability does Ms. Richards have to control the employer's employment actions? Your statement is also utterly false. PyCon met with the individuals at the time, who apologized for their vulgar remarks. Of course, the one then later posted to HN, apologizing again but blaming his woes on Richards instead of his dumb employer, which started the whole witch-hunt, so perhaps his apology was not entirely sincere. In case you aren't used to thinking in these terms, the legal profession provides some guides. One of them is proximate cause. Was the action of calling an action "not cool" sufficiently close to the action of a person Ms. Richards never met or spoke to in firing the developer as to be the cause of that firing? And further, was the result reasonably foreseeable by an average person at the time? Does it often happen that calling something "not cool" results in the object of the remark being fired?
- Aqueous 11y ago
  There's plenty of blame to go around. The individual who was fired said "As a result of the picture she took I was let go from my job today. Which sucks because I have 3 kids and I really liked that job." That certainly seems to be drawing a causal link between the picture being taken / Tweeted, and the firing. Is that not accurate or are there details that I haven't understood? I would agree with you if it wasn't clear that the entire purpose of the Tweet (with picture) was public shaming. She knew the audience (her thousands of followers) and she knew their possible (even likely) reaction. That was the whole point. She took a semi-public, fundamentally local act and made it completely public and potentially global. That does not seem to be a proportionate reaction to the offense. She should have known about the public fallout this could have on the employees and their employer. As a PR professional Adria Richards is / ought to be fully aware of what she puts out into the world and the potential consequences of putting it out there. "PyCon met with the individuals at the time, who apologized for their vulgar remarks." But not before Adria Richards had already tweeted a picture of the offenders. Neither were given a chance to apologize before Adria Richards made the split-second decision to go completely public.

DanBC 11y ago

(I upvoted you) She has gone on to say that she's not sorry for what happened to the two guys and that they deserved it, and that she is unrepentant about the whole thing. Reasonable people feel a bit shocked by that. The guy should not have made that comment; she should not have made a public comment about them; a pitch-forked mob should not have caused him and then her to lose their jobs; but after all that it is kind of odd to hear her say that the disruption and chaos is an acceptable result of him making a stupid joke at an inappropriate time.