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You can leave the U.S. whenever you want. The U.S. isn't restricting your ability to leave. If the country of your choice doesn't permit you to emigrate, that

by Frondo 11y ago

You can leave the U.S. whenever you want. The U.S. isn't restricting your ability to leave. If the country of your choice doesn't permit you to emigrate, that doesn't mean that you're suddenly free from your obligations to whatever country will host you. Wouldn't that be convenient? "Sir, I don't have to pay taxes. I want to move to Switzerland, but they're full right now, so I can't." (And the "threat of prison" is some of the dumbest hyperbole out of the antitax crowd--for nearly all cases, they'll simply garnish your wages, or something equally non-freedom-constraining.)

itistoday2 11y ago
It doesn't help if all other countries both severely restrict entry and/or force a tax upon you. I'd just end up in the same exact situation. > And the "threat of prison" is some of the dumbest hyperbole... It's not hyperbole. If you willfully fail to file that's grounds for imprisonment: http://www.businessinsider.com/terrible-things-that-could-happen-if-you-dont-do-your-taxes-2014-4 http://www.businessinsider.com/terrible-things-that-could-ha... You're probably thinking of cases when people "forget" or make "mistakes" in their filing. > ...out of the antitax crowd I mentioned this already, I am not anti-tax. Please cut it with the labeling. It's late. We're going in circles. Have a good night, I won't be replying to whatever you post next.
- Frondo 11y ago
  Fine, you're not antitax. You're just engaging in a lengthy thread debate using their common arguments. I stand by my statement w.r.t. the antitax crowd. And again, whether all other countries do not meet your preference or requirement does not free you from your obligations to this one, as long as you live here. Whether other countries don't allow you in, don't allow you to stay, don't govern the way you like, or whatever other complaint you may have about other countries, that does not change your present-day relationship to this one: that you live here, and as such are obligated to pay taxes as long as you do. And of course there are, right now, many other countries that you could emigrate to if you liked. Even if your A-list countries aren't open, you still have lots of options.
  - jqgatsby 11y ago
    My hat is off to Frondo and notahacker. I've occasionally (regrettably, foolishly) tried to argue it out with the "taxation is theft" folks, and this is the first time I've seen one of them actually give up from exhaustion. I'm sure he'll recharge and come back tomorrow once he looks up the next argument in his playbook, but even temporary victories must be savored. Sorry, itistoday2, I'm sure you're a nice person in person, but the argument you're making is obnoxious. Have you noticed how people get really annoyed when you make it? It's not because it's a good argument!
    - techlibertarian 11y ago
      > Have you noticed how people get really annoyed when you make it? It's not because it's a good argument! People also used to get annoyed when people said the Earth wasn't the center of the solar system.
      - ubernostrum 11y ago
        They laughed at Galileo, they laughed at Einstein, and they laughed at Bozo the Clown.
LordKano 11y ago
And the "threat of prison" is some of the dumbest hyperbole out of the antitax crowd--for nearly all cases, they'll simply garnish your wages, or something equally non-freedom-constraining. Oh they regularly send people to prison for failing to pay taxes. Does the name Wesley Snipes ring a bell? They sent him to prison for three years on three misdemeanor counts of failing to file tax returns, even after he brought a check to court for the outstanding balance. On a basic level, that's what all laws are. They are a series of escalating punishments and threats that end soon after "then, we'll send guys with guns to take you to prison".
ebrenes 11y ago
While you can theoretically leave the U.S. whenever you want, you cannot stop paying taxes whenever you want. You have to renounce citizenship, pay a fine for renouncing said citizenship to avoid paying taxes and possibly be audited. And you might argue that's fine, because they should be able to collect back taxes but you'll generally have to pay taxes for the next 10 years. So, putting aside the immigration issues, and assuming you could move to wherever you wanted it's still not possible.

by Frondo 11y ago

itistoday2 11y ago

It doesn't help if all other countries both severely restrict entry and/or force a tax upon you. I'd just end up in the same exact situation. > And the "threat of prison" is some of the dumbest hyperbole... It's not hyperbole. If you willfully fail to file that's grounds for imprisonment: http://www.businessinsider.com/terrible-things-that-could-happen-if-you-dont-do-your-taxes-2014-4 http://www.businessinsider.com/terrible-things-that-could-ha... You're probably thinking of cases when people "forget" or make "mistakes" in their filing. > ...out of the antitax crowd I mentioned this already, I am not anti-tax. Please cut it with the labeling. It's late. We're going in circles. Have a good night, I won't be replying to whatever you post next.

Frondo 11y ago
Fine, you're not antitax. You're just engaging in a lengthy thread debate using their common arguments. I stand by my statement w.r.t. the antitax crowd. And again, whether all other countries do not meet your preference or requirement does not free you from your obligations to this one, as long as you live here. Whether other countries don't allow you in, don't allow you to stay, don't govern the way you like, or whatever other complaint you may have about other countries, that does not change your present-day relationship to this one: that you live here, and as such are obligated to pay taxes as long as you do. And of course there are, right now, many other countries that you could emigrate to if you liked. Even if your A-list countries aren't open, you still have lots of options.
- jqgatsby 11y ago
  My hat is off to Frondo and notahacker. I've occasionally (regrettably, foolishly) tried to argue it out with the "taxation is theft" folks, and this is the first time I've seen one of them actually give up from exhaustion. I'm sure he'll recharge and come back tomorrow once he looks up the next argument in his playbook, but even temporary victories must be savored. Sorry, itistoday2, I'm sure you're a nice person in person, but the argument you're making is obnoxious. Have you noticed how people get really annoyed when you make it? It's not because it's a good argument!
  - techlibertarian 11y ago
    > Have you noticed how people get really annoyed when you make it? It's not because it's a good argument! People also used to get annoyed when people said the Earth wasn't the center of the solar system.
    - ubernostrum 11y ago
      They laughed at Galileo, they laughed at Einstein, and they laughed at Bozo the Clown.

LordKano 11y ago

And the "threat of prison" is some of the dumbest hyperbole out of the antitax crowd--for nearly all cases, they'll simply garnish your wages, or something equally non-freedom-constraining. Oh they regularly send people to prison for failing to pay taxes. Does the name Wesley Snipes ring a bell? They sent him to prison for three years on three misdemeanor counts of failing to file tax returns, even after he brought a check to court for the outstanding balance. On a basic level, that's what all laws are. They are a series of escalating punishments and threats that end soon after "then, we'll send guys with guns to take you to prison".

ebrenes 11y ago

While you can theoretically leave the U.S. whenever you want, you cannot stop paying taxes whenever you want. You have to renounce citizenship, pay a fine for renouncing said citizenship to avoid paying taxes and possibly be audited. And you might argue that's fine, because they should be able to collect back taxes but you'll generally have to pay taxes for the next 10 years. So, putting aside the immigration issues, and assuming you could move to wherever you wanted it's still not possible.