5 ms·

Even if everybody moves to FLAC or other lossless music format, musicians will still likely add in MP3 compression artifact sounds. After all, like with vinyl,

by biot 11y ago

Even if everybody moves to FLAC or other lossless music format, musicians will still likely add in MP3 compression artifact sounds. After all, like with vinyl, it makes the music sound warmer.

TylerE 11y ago
No it doesn't, that's BS. No one prefers the sound of MP3. Vinyl sounds better not because of some alleged "distortion", either.
- robotresearcher 11y ago
  If the artifacts of vinyl pressing and playback are not distortion, what are they?
  - jay_kyburz 11y ago
    I thought people prefer the sound of vinyl because it's analog and has a much wider range that digital music. (Not because it's distorted)
    - TylerE 11y ago
      Exactly. And also that it can't be loudness-warred to death.
      - enneff 11y ago
        "Loudness wars" has everything to do with mastering and very little to do with the actual medium. Yes, the onset of the loudness wars coincided with the rise of digital distribution, but you can master a record to be just as loud as a CD. On the other hand, you can't master a record to have as much dynamic range as a CD. That's why classical music enthusiasts tend to prefer CDs.
        TylerE 11y ago
        No you can't. A record cut that hot would make the needle skip out of the groove.
        enneff 11y ago
        Have you listened to any recently released records? They're loud as hell.
    - JohnTHaller 11y ago
      Vinyl in actual use has a much narrower range than CDs or MP3s. One things that is common, though, is for Vinyl to be mastered differently than the digital final result. So, it is entirely possible for the CD/MP3 release of a given song to have a much narrower dynamic range than a Vinyl release of a given song despite being released on demonstrably inferior technology.
      - colechristensen 11y ago
        Said differently, the limitations of a medium can lead to better decisions. What can be done with a limited toolset is often better than what can be done with an unlimited toolset.
        JohnTHaller 11y ago
        In this specific case, it's not a result of the toolset, but a result of the consumer. The vinyl enthusiast is buying something they are a fan of at a higher price and expecting a quality product. The typical MP3 customer is buying it based on a 15 second sample. So, the 'loudness wars' still apply to many digital products, sadly.
        colechristensen 11y ago
        The loudness wars aren't physically possible on vinyl, they aren't prevented by customer preference but instead by physics. Photographing in black and white forces the photographer to concentrate on light, shadow, and texture. There are several art forms where the artist picks a set of restrictions to work in and that exploration can create great things. The demoscene creates mind-blowing works because they have to work in such a small data space. If every organism survived and reproduced without any restriction, the sum of life would be pond scum. The punishing negative feedback of restrictions drives creation – just as much as breaking those boundaries. Less is more. Worse is better. Everything in moderation.
        JohnTHaller 11y ago
    - emddudley 11y ago
      Wider range of what?
    - robotresearcher 11y ago
      Vinyl sounds nice to many people. It has likeable, some say 'musical', distortion. A turntable with a nice amp and speakers is a novel treat to people who have grown up with low-bitrate mp3s and ear buds. Sounds different. And having to work a bit harder and paying attention means you tend to get more out of it. Of course, a well-mastered CD and a nice pair of headphones also sounds great and might be a more accurate reproduction of what they heard in the studio. I just like music every way :)
      - StavrosK 11y ago
        Α FLAC player with a nice amp and speakers is an even nicer way, and, about the working hard part, I could say the same for waiting tables to buy your music. I don't know, this all sounds like rationalization to me. Saying "I grew up with vinyl so it sounds more familiar to me" is fine, I grew up with 8-bit graphics and I like them, but they're not objectively better. Trying to rationalize this preference with things like "bigger pixels are easier to see" is a bit disingenuous, though.
- biot 11y ago
  See: http://web.archive.org/web/20090804164014/http://i.gizmodo.com/5166649/ipods-and-young-people-have-utterly-destroyed-music http://web.archive.org/web/20090804164014/http://i.gizmodo.c... Students were asked to judge the quality of a variety of compression methods randomly mixed with uncompressed 44.1 KHz audio. The music examples included both orchestral, jazz and rock music. When I first did this I was expecting to hear preferences for uncompressed audio and expecting to see MP3 (at 128, 160 and 192 bit rates) well below other methods (including a proprietary wavelet-based approach and AAC). To my surprise, in the rock examples the MP3 at 128 was preferred. I repeated the experiment over 6 years and found the preference for MP3 - particularly in music with high energy (cymbal crashes, brass hits, etc) rising over time. And from http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/03/the-sizzling-sound-of-music.html http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/03/the-sizzling-sound-of-music... ... each year the preference for music in MP3 format rises. In other words, students prefer the quality of that kind of sound over the sound of music of much higher quality. He said that they seemed to prefer “sizzle sounds” that MP3s bring to music. It is a sound they are familiar with. EDIT: See also http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl) http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)
  - pshc 11y ago
    Oh my god. I remember that "sizzle." That's the perfect way to put it! ... It is not missed.

by biot 11y ago

Even if everybody moves to FLAC or other lossless music format, musicians will still likely add in MP3 compression artifact sounds. After all, like with vinyl, it makes the music sound warmer.

TylerE 11y ago

No it doesn't, that's BS. No one prefers the sound of MP3. Vinyl sounds better not because of some alleged "distortion", either.

robotresearcher 11y ago
If the artifacts of vinyl pressing and playback are not distortion, what are they?
- jay_kyburz 11y ago
  I thought people prefer the sound of vinyl because it's analog and has a much wider range that digital music. (Not because it's distorted)
  - TylerE 11y ago
    Exactly. And also that it can't be loudness-warred to death.
    - enneff 11y ago
      "Loudness wars" has everything to do with mastering and very little to do with the actual medium. Yes, the onset of the loudness wars coincided with the rise of digital distribution, but you can master a record to be just as loud as a CD. On the other hand, you can't master a record to have as much dynamic range as a CD. That's why classical music enthusiasts tend to prefer CDs.
      - TylerE 11y ago
        No you can't. A record cut that hot would make the needle skip out of the groove.
        enneff 11y ago
        Have you listened to any recently released records? They're loud as hell.
  - JohnTHaller 11y ago
    Vinyl in actual use has a much narrower range than CDs or MP3s. One things that is common, though, is for Vinyl to be mastered differently than the digital final result. So, it is entirely possible for the CD/MP3 release of a given song to have a much narrower dynamic range than a Vinyl release of a given song despite being released on demonstrably inferior technology.
    - colechristensen 11y ago
      Said differently, the limitations of a medium can lead to better decisions. What can be done with a limited toolset is often better than what can be done with an unlimited toolset.
      - JohnTHaller 11y ago
        In this specific case, it's not a result of the toolset, but a result of the consumer. The vinyl enthusiast is buying something they are a fan of at a higher price and expecting a quality product. The typical MP3 customer is buying it based on a 15 second sample. So, the 'loudness wars' still apply to many digital products, sadly.
        colechristensen 11y ago
        The loudness wars aren't physically possible on vinyl, they aren't prevented by customer preference but instead by physics. Photographing in black and white forces the photographer to concentrate on light, shadow, and texture. There are several art forms where the artist picks a set of restrictions to work in and that exploration can create great things. The demoscene creates mind-blowing works because they have to work in such a small data space. If every organism survived and reproduced without any restriction, the sum of life would be pond scum. The punishing negative feedback of restrictions drives creation – just as much as breaking those boundaries. Less is more. Worse is better. Everything in moderation.
        JohnTHaller 11y ago
  - emddudley 11y ago
    Wider range of what?
  - robotresearcher 11y ago
    Vinyl sounds nice to many people. It has likeable, some say 'musical', distortion. A turntable with a nice amp and speakers is a novel treat to people who have grown up with low-bitrate mp3s and ear buds. Sounds different. And having to work a bit harder and paying attention means you tend to get more out of it. Of course, a well-mastered CD and a nice pair of headphones also sounds great and might be a more accurate reproduction of what they heard in the studio. I just like music every way :)
    - StavrosK 11y ago
      Α FLAC player with a nice amp and speakers is an even nicer way, and, about the working hard part, I could say the same for waiting tables to buy your music. I don't know, this all sounds like rationalization to me. Saying "I grew up with vinyl so it sounds more familiar to me" is fine, I grew up with 8-bit graphics and I like them, but they're not objectively better. Trying to rationalize this preference with things like "bigger pixels are easier to see" is a bit disingenuous, though.
biot 11y ago
See: http://web.archive.org/web/20090804164014/http://i.gizmodo.com/5166649/ipods-and-young-people-have-utterly-destroyed-music http://web.archive.org/web/20090804164014/http://i.gizmodo.c... Students were asked to judge the quality of a variety of compression methods randomly mixed with uncompressed 44.1 KHz audio. The music examples included both orchestral, jazz and rock music. When I first did this I was expecting to hear preferences for uncompressed audio and expecting to see MP3 (at 128, 160 and 192 bit rates) well below other methods (including a proprietary wavelet-based approach and AAC). To my surprise, in the rock examples the MP3 at 128 was preferred. I repeated the experiment over 6 years and found the preference for MP3 - particularly in music with high energy (cymbal crashes, brass hits, etc) rising over time. And from http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/03/the-sizzling-sound-of-music.html http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/03/the-sizzling-sound-of-music... ... each year the preference for music in MP3 format rises. In other words, students prefer the quality of that kind of sound over the sound of music of much higher quality. He said that they seemed to prefer “sizzle sounds” that MP3s bring to music. It is a sound they are familiar with. EDIT: See also http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl) http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)
- pshc 11y ago
  Oh my god. I remember that "sizzle." That's the perfect way to put it! ... It is not missed.