4 ms·

Ask HN: Say you know no math, how would you go from zero to calc in one year?

2 points by TheOneWhoAsks 11y ago

Is that even possible?

AnimalMuppet 11y ago
I think that no, it's not possible - not if by "no math" you mean "can't add". Even if you mean "can add, subtract, multiply, and divide, but can't do algebra", it would be very hard.
strommen 11y ago
No math like a 2-year-old? Or just simple arithmetic? Programming knowledge?
- TheOneWhoAsks 11y ago
  The person knows simple arithmetic and enjoys programming in python.
  - strommen 11y ago
    Then absolutely. Understanding functions is the biggest mental obstacle to calculus, and as programmers we already do that.
dalke 11y ago
Perhaps, but unlikely. There are many levels of "know no math." I used to tutor math at a university. There were some people who had difficulty with pre-algebra, as in "simplify 4 + 5x + 2 + 3x". If you don't know how to add two things together, then that's different than someone who can do grade school arithmetic, but that latter is certainly more than "no math." What do you mean by "calc"? It's a broad category with several centuries of formalization behind it. Basic concepts of summation leading to integration, like what Euclid did in ancient Greece, or differentiation as the slope of a line, can be learned after a college algebra course. But at that point the calculus is pretty hand-wavy. A more serious understanding depends on more rigorous formalisms, like epsilon-delta proofs. So I would go there by trying to figure out if there's a specific goal in mind, or a bare minimum of what counts as sufficient understanding. I would also figure out if "one year" means 5 minutes per day on average, or 6 hours per day. There are also any number of books that teach calculus to the mathematically inexperience. However, I have no experience with them.
- TheOneWhoAsks 11y ago
  I would like to say I'm trying to help a close friend who seriously lacks math skills. He knows your everyday arithmetic but no algebra whatsoever. I understand algebra but haven't done anything calc related. He said he wants to be able to learn calculus (I guess whats presented in a typical first year of calc in college). He has a lot of time on his hands and he wants to dedicate that to studying, about 12 hrs (6hrs in the morning, 6 in the afternoon). He's a junior in HS.
  - Someone 11y ago
    "He said he wants to be able to learn calculus" If he doesn't know anything about calculus, it is unlikely that is his true goal. You should probe him to find out what he thinks knowing calculus will bring him. Does he want to program games? Get a good score for math in school? Did his parents promise him a car if he does well in school? "(I guess what's presented in a typical first year of calc in college)." I rest my case :-) if your guess turns out to be wrong, your help may teach him calculus, but won't make him happy. "He's a junior in HS." I don't understand. If he is a junior in high school, he should already know quite a bit of math, shouldn't he? What am I overlooking? And those 12 hours, is that per day or per week?
    - TheOneWhoAsks 11y ago
      He's a weird case where our education system here kept passing him even though he was failing math classes. He now cares and is trying to catch up. Thats 12hrs a day btw.
      - dalke 11y ago
        12hrs a day for a year? With no other education or pursuits? If he's a junior then doesn't he need his senior year to graduate? (I know there are exceptions, like entering college early without a HS degree, or dropping out of HS upon reaching sufficient age. I assume this is one of them.) It's very hard to offer any sort of guidance. It sounds very much like biting off more than he can chew. I was good at math, but even with years of math classes I found the first semester of calculus to be tough going. (It was an odd thing; I didn't understand the midterm that well, but within a couple of weeks it was all clear.) There are certainly people who just sit down and work through math problems. Dirac, for example, worked through math problems for his holidays. Ramanujan learned math almost entirely on his own. But these are the exceptions by far. Okay, so my suggestion is to go to a nearby college and ask for advice from the undergraduate math adviser.

2 points by TheOneWhoAsks 11y ago

Is that even possible?

I think that no, it's not possible - not if by "no math" you mean "can't add". Even if you mean "can add, subtract, multiply, and divide, but can't do algebra", it would be very hard.

strommen 11y ago

No math like a 2-year-old? Or just simple arithmetic? Programming knowledge?

TheOneWhoAsks 11y ago
The person knows simple arithmetic and enjoys programming in python.
- strommen 11y ago
  Then absolutely. Understanding functions is the biggest mental obstacle to calculus, and as programmers we already do that.

dalke 11y ago

Perhaps, but unlikely. There are many levels of "know no math." I used to tutor math at a university. There were some people who had difficulty with pre-algebra, as in "simplify 4 + 5x + 2 + 3x". If you don't know how to add two things together, then that's different than someone who can do grade school arithmetic, but that latter is certainly more than "no math." What do you mean by "calc"? It's a broad category with several centuries of formalization behind it. Basic concepts of summation leading to integration, like what Euclid did in ancient Greece, or differentiation as the slope of a line, can be learned after a college algebra course. But at that point the calculus is pretty hand-wavy. A more serious understanding depends on more rigorous formalisms, like epsilon-delta proofs. So I would go there by trying to figure out if there's a specific goal in mind, or a bare minimum of what counts as sufficient understanding. I would also figure out if "one year" means 5 minutes per day on average, or 6 hours per day. There are also any number of books that teach calculus to the mathematically inexperience. However, I have no experience with them.

TheOneWhoAsks 11y ago
I would like to say I'm trying to help a close friend who seriously lacks math skills. He knows your everyday arithmetic but no algebra whatsoever. I understand algebra but haven't done anything calc related. He said he wants to be able to learn calculus (I guess whats presented in a typical first year of calc in college). He has a lot of time on his hands and he wants to dedicate that to studying, about 12 hrs (6hrs in the morning, 6 in the afternoon). He's a junior in HS.
- Someone 11y ago
  "He said he wants to be able to learn calculus" If he doesn't know anything about calculus, it is unlikely that is his true goal. You should probe him to find out what he thinks knowing calculus will bring him. Does he want to program games? Get a good score for math in school? Did his parents promise him a car if he does well in school? "(I guess what's presented in a typical first year of calc in college)." I rest my case :-) if your guess turns out to be wrong, your help may teach him calculus, but won't make him happy. "He's a junior in HS." I don't understand. If he is a junior in high school, he should already know quite a bit of math, shouldn't he? What am I overlooking? And those 12 hours, is that per day or per week?
  - TheOneWhoAsks 11y ago
    He's a weird case where our education system here kept passing him even though he was failing math classes. He now cares and is trying to catch up. Thats 12hrs a day btw.
    - dalke 11y ago
      12hrs a day for a year? With no other education or pursuits? If he's a junior then doesn't he need his senior year to graduate? (I know there are exceptions, like entering college early without a HS degree, or dropping out of HS upon reaching sufficient age. I assume this is one of them.) It's very hard to offer any sort of guidance. It sounds very much like biting off more than he can chew. I was good at math, but even with years of math classes I found the first semester of calculus to be tough going. (It was an odd thing; I didn't understand the midterm that well, but within a couple of weeks it was all clear.) There are certainly people who just sit down and work through math problems. Dirac, for example, worked through math problems for his holidays. Ramanujan learned math almost entirely on his own. But these are the exceptions by far. Okay, so my suggestion is to go to a nearby college and ask for advice from the undergraduate math adviser.