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I fall into camp 3. I have a DJI Phantom that I crashed into my neighbor's yard due to my own incompetence and inexperience. I'm not arguing for draconian poli

by bglazer 11y ago

I fall into camp 3. I have a DJI Phantom that I crashed into my neighbor's yard due to my own incompetence and inexperience. I'm not arguing for draconian policy measures. I just want manufacturers to focus on and market reliability and safety features. It's a win-win for users and manufacturers. Manufacturers are clearly aiming for these drones to be everywhere and for everyone to own one. With many, many people flying for the first time everyday there are going to be accidents. If manufacturers can reduce the harm caused by these accidents then they'll have a much easier path for FAA regulations and public acceptance. For users, they get the ease of mind that crashes won't be catastrophic for their drone and a reduced chance that they'll inadvertently hurt someone.

lsaferite 11y ago
Is the 'hands-off' recovery not good on the DJI platform? I've always used OpenPilot FCs so have no idea how well the DJI FC works, but the OP hardware will fully recover from stupidity if you let go of the controls (while not in acro mode).
- windexh8er 11y ago
  Fail safe works reliably in my experience - but it doesn't save from risky flight in the first place. I think YMMV, but I've yet to have an in-flight failure that resulted in crashing or losing control. That being said I'm overly cautious about inspection and maintenance of the craft I own. I'm not disillusioned though - it will happen, I'll lose an ESC mid-flight and I'll have to deal with trying to guide an uncontrollable aircraft that I may not have line of sight on. Pretty much next to impossible to guarantee anything in that situation.
cpks 11y ago
You can buy a gun. You can still (barely) buy model rockets. You can buy glass windows (which shatter into thousands of sharp pieces if broken). I want proper insurance, liability, etc. when things fail, and good risk management. I don't want stupid safety.
- Tloewald 11y ago
  > You can still (barely) buy model rockets. I see them selling in Target all over the place. When I was a kid you had to find a pretty specialized store.
  - vonmoltke 11y ago
    I think I got mine from Toys R Us, but yeah they were harder to find 20+ years ago than they are now.
    - guelo 11y ago
      But... Obama!
- jahewson 11y ago
  Well, you knocked those straw men down. I guess that settles it. Drones are exactly like windows aren't they?
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Talking about straw men, he also mentioned guns and toy rockets.
    - MattHeard 11y ago
      A strawman might hurt someone if it gets knocked over easily, but we don't see the government stepping in to stop people building them up all the time!
- noja 11y ago
  > You can buy a gun. In the US maybe, I can't. > You can still (barely) buy model rockets. In the US maybe, I can't. > You can buy glass windows (which shatter into thousands of sharp pieces if broken). In the US maybe. Safety glass is really not very dangerous, and it's standard.
windexh8er 11y ago
Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the point you are trying to make. The problem I have with it is, it seems by your own admission, you're somewhat hypocritical. You'd like for someone else, a la the manufacturer, to provide a guarantee that you can be lazy and not take precautions so that you don't have to worry about a $1300 radio controlled vehicle that flies doesn't hurt someone else? I only mention the general cost because - there's not that much margin in these things to achieve what you want. Nobody will spend $2300 on a Phantom if that additional $1000 is for upgrades to safety and ignorance factors. There are many things that didn't start out with any guarantees of implied safety - and many things that are assumed safe, when not operated safely, are inherently very risky / unsafe. Finally, there are easily many tens of thousands of hobby grade drones out there - flying daily, operating (for the most part) safely (again partially dependent on operator). How many deaths have occurred to date? Something that really bothers me is that when I first started flying the general reaction I had was of excitement - although I was generally no less cautious. The RC craft I flew drew interest and excitement from bystanders and it was generally a good experience. Now, I am overly cautious when flying anywhere near public areas. I've received comments about how I should "go somewhere else", even when I was flying in an area where there were no people, but someone decided to seek me out since they saw the craft from remote. And I've generally just tried to stay out of places I know would be potential hazards if there was a malfunction where I lost control. Do I still fly in "tight" locations? Yes - I do. I've flown my neighborhood to assess storm damage for my neighbors knowing that there are people - but in those situations I always fly with prop guards and try to fly over houses, not over sidewalks or roads. And then there's the artistic side - I like taking shots of architecture and some of those situations require thoughtful planning or waiting for an area to clear. I can't help other people's ignorance and I will say that you flying untethered with no experience is not something DJI or I should have to worry about - that's your choice and risk to weigh. If I was your neighbor I'd have a frank conversation with you about your actual skills and ability to ascertain risk. In my opinion golf is far more risky than flying "drones" (I prefer RC quad-copter, but to each their own). I play golf, I love it. I'm not going to stop playing because you hit golf balls off your deck into your neighbors yard and then expect Titleist and Callaway to fix your bad decision.
- coldtea 11y ago

by bglazer 11y ago

lsaferite 11y ago

Is the 'hands-off' recovery not good on the DJI platform? I've always used OpenPilot FCs so have no idea how well the DJI FC works, but the OP hardware will fully recover from stupidity if you let go of the controls (while not in acro mode).

windexh8er 11y ago
Fail safe works reliably in my experience - but it doesn't save from risky flight in the first place. I think YMMV, but I've yet to have an in-flight failure that resulted in crashing or losing control. That being said I'm overly cautious about inspection and maintenance of the craft I own. I'm not disillusioned though - it will happen, I'll lose an ESC mid-flight and I'll have to deal with trying to guide an uncontrollable aircraft that I may not have line of sight on. Pretty much next to impossible to guarantee anything in that situation.

cpks 11y ago

You can buy a gun. You can still (barely) buy model rockets. You can buy glass windows (which shatter into thousands of sharp pieces if broken). I want proper insurance, liability, etc. when things fail, and good risk management. I don't want stupid safety.

Tloewald 11y ago
> You can still (barely) buy model rockets. I see them selling in Target all over the place. When I was a kid you had to find a pretty specialized store.
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  I think I got mine from Toys R Us, but yeah they were harder to find 20+ years ago than they are now.
  - guelo 11y ago
    But... Obama!
jahewson 11y ago
Well, you knocked those straw men down. I guess that settles it. Drones are exactly like windows aren't they?
- coldtea 11y ago
  Talking about straw men, he also mentioned guns and toy rockets.
  - MattHeard 11y ago
    A strawman might hurt someone if it gets knocked over easily, but we don't see the government stepping in to stop people building them up all the time!
noja 11y ago
> You can buy a gun. In the US maybe, I can't. > You can still (barely) buy model rockets. In the US maybe, I can't. > You can buy glass windows (which shatter into thousands of sharp pieces if broken). In the US maybe. Safety glass is really not very dangerous, and it's standard.

windexh8er 11y ago

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the point you are trying to make. The problem I have with it is, it seems by your own admission, you're somewhat hypocritical. You'd like for someone else, a la the manufacturer, to provide a guarantee that you can be lazy and not take precautions so that you don't have to worry about a $1300 radio controlled vehicle that flies doesn't hurt someone else? I only mention the general cost because - there's not that much margin in these things to achieve what you want. Nobody will spend $2300 on a Phantom if that additional $1000 is for upgrades to safety and ignorance factors. There are many things that didn't start out with any guarantees of implied safety - and many things that are assumed safe, when not operated safely, are inherently very risky / unsafe. Finally, there are easily many tens of thousands of hobby grade drones out there - flying daily, operating (for the most part) safely (again partially dependent on operator). How many deaths have occurred to date? Something that really bothers me is that when I first started flying the general reaction I had was of excitement - although I was generally no less cautious. The RC craft I flew drew interest and excitement from bystanders and it was generally a good experience. Now, I am overly cautious when flying anywhere near public areas. I've received comments about how I should "go somewhere else", even when I was flying in an area where there were no people, but someone decided to seek me out since they saw the craft from remote. And I've generally just tried to stay out of places I know would be potential hazards if there was a malfunction where I lost control. Do I still fly in "tight" locations? Yes - I do. I've flown my neighborhood to assess storm damage for my neighbors knowing that there are people - but in those situations I always fly with prop guards and try to fly over houses, not over sidewalks or roads. And then there's the artistic side - I like taking shots of architecture and some of those situations require thoughtful planning or waiting for an area to clear. I can't help other people's ignorance and I will say that you flying untethered with no experience is not something DJI or I should have to worry about - that's your choice and risk to weigh. If I was your neighbor I'd have a frank conversation with you about your actual skills and ability to ascertain risk. In my opinion golf is far more risky than flying "drones" (I prefer RC quad-copter, but to each their own). I play golf, I love it. I'm not going to stop playing because you hit golf balls off your deck into your neighbors yard and then expect Titleist and Callaway to fix your bad decision.

coldtea 11y ago