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I could be wrong, but I believe the post that he's referring to as inspiration is this one: https://css-tricks.com/tales-of-a-non-unicorn-a-story-about-the-trou

I could be wrong, but I believe the post that he's referring to as inspiration is this one: https://css-tricks.com/tales-of-a-non-unicorn-a-story-about-the-trouble-with-job-titles-and-descriptions/ https://css-tricks.com/tales-of-a-non-unicorn-a-story-about-... A pretty interesting story about job titles and descriptions that are not representative of the job they're trying to hire for.

josephmx 11y ago
That's correct, but I left the link off because the fizzbuzz comment isn't strictly relevant, it just interested me a little. Would it be better etiquette to put the link in?
- workingandtired 11y ago
  I don't think it's necessary for the post. I figured the comments would be a nice place for it if people were curious.
carlosrg 11y ago
More like a story of someone that applied for a job that asks for Javascript skills without knowing Javascript and then blamed the company, and made a blog post/rant about it, because they hired someone else that probably fits that particular position better.
- bramgg 11y ago
  Agreed, I can't believe people are taking that blog post seriously. It's literally FizzBuzz we're talking about.
- pyre 11y ago
  The job description was a bit disjointed, and she chose to ignore relevant portions and focus on irrelevant ones. The company in question could have done a better job with the posting (wtf is a "B.Sc. in Design"?). On the other hand, her reaction that FizzBuzz is only for some uber CompSci geeks is nonsensical. First sentence from the Wikipedia page for FizzBuzz: Fizz buzz is a group word game for children to teach them about division.
- dkersten 11y ago
  I thought so too at first (and its not like FizzBuzz is hard), but if you read the post you'll see the job advert was for design, only listing JS as "HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript" after talking about design up until then (and then only listing further JS stuff as nice to haves). The person made clear that they can do all the design stuff and can use JS to add basic interaction to the frontend. The job post didn't ask for a programmer. I don't see how its the designers fault for not being a programmer.
  - carlosrg 11y ago
    The job advert asked for someone that knows Javscript. This person doesn't know JavaScript. The person that got the job probably knew Javascript. I don't think this deserves a blog post ranting against that company because they asked you a Javascript question in, I repeat, a job listing that specifically asked for Javascript knowledge.
    - dkersten 11y ago
      The advertised job was for a "UX Engineer/Interaction Designer". The responsibilities listed were: * Create low and high-fidelity mockups to effectively convey interaction and design ideas (e.g. wireframes, sketches, 'pixel-perfect' mockups, etc). * Deliver engaging, innovative prototypes, and contribute to front-end development of our products. * Collaborate with and synthesize feedback from other members of the team. * Evaluate the usability of new and existing products, apply user research findings, and make constructive suggestions for improvements. The minimum qualifications: * B.S. degree in Design, Computer Science or related technical field or comparable practical experience. * 2 or more years of designing clean, valid, and compatible websites and applications. * Knowledge of Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator. * Clean and elegant visual design aesthetic. * HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript. * Passionate about creating responsive and delightful interfaces and experiences. Everything except the HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript. scream visual/ux designer. Nowhere does it say programmer. I don't think its a stretch that if you came across that job post that you would assume that Javascript is needed in a small way to tie bits and pieces together, like the author assumed. EVERY thing else in that post[1] is about UX or visual design. They didn't say they wanted a programmer, they said they wanted a designer who knows a small bit about technical things. I think the author fits the bill, especially since most job posts are now completely inflated with impossible requests (ten years experience in a technology that's only existed for five? I've seen it done!) [1] I'm ignoring the "preferred qualifications", since that heading makes it sound like nice to have not must have
Raphmedia 11y ago
I am a front-end guy, and I end up doing UX, design, back-end, bug tickets support, managing projects and clients and even back-end. If you try to stick to your job description, you are not going to be very helpful in the real world.
- workingandtired 11y ago
  I do the same, and it's pretty common. I feel like the point of the post is that if that is what a company expects, they should outline it in the initial job description to prevent wasting everybody's time. Just saying HTML/CSS/JS Angular/Backbone doesn't indicate what level of expertise you want or how big a part they'll play in the position.
sakri 11y ago
I'm fascinated by how involved people get in these kinds of stories. Hundreds of comments, and the mods been deleting a bunch. Post after post saying more or less the same thing. I need to figure out a way to channel this sentiment into an app and strike gold!
- leppr 11y ago
  I think you just invented Twitter, congratulation
efbbbf 11y ago
>and descriptions that are not representative of the job they're trying to hire for. The position is described as a UX engineer and designer, and the applicant is expected to be experienced with JS and various frameworks for it. The story seems to be more about a person who can't read and feels entitled to a job position they're not fit for. They were unable to display knowledge of basic for loops and conditionals and they were unable to convert a timecode string into seconds. Both of which are basically tests for "does this person even understand programming". Which they obviously don't because they wrote "OMG MATH" to a problem consisting only of the most basic logical concepts. Maybe next time they should apply for a job that doesn't require programming knowledge.
- workingandtired 11y ago
  I don't disagree with you that the job expected programming in their candidate. Nor should she have rationalized away the two lines that mentioned Javascript in description. However, I do believe that there is a communication error on the part of the company. A UI/UX Designer/Engineer does not inherently require programming. In many startups, it does, as does wearing many hats. But if they're looking for someone to program, it should be outlined in the responsibilities. Knowing "HTML/CSS/JS" is different than building an entire application (just an example). Not only that, but the line "Experienced with Object Oriented JavaScript and modern JavaScript libraries such as Ember, Backbone, or Angular." was placed under "Preferred Qualifications", which to me says "desirable but not necessarily required". If that's not what they meant, they should have clarified the importance. My personal opinion is that if a job wants you to build stuff, they should outright say "You will be responsible for developing and maintaing a code base, in addition to designing and lending UI/UX expertise" rather than just loading a job listing with keywords.
  - nawitus 11y ago
    I think the job posting clearly communicated that the applicant should at least have a basic grasp of JavaScript. On a related note, it's weird that the author claims to have experience with Ember/Angular.js or other similar frameworks without being able to write the FizzBuzz.

josephmx 11y ago

That's correct, but I left the link off because the fizzbuzz comment isn't strictly relevant, it just interested me a little. Would it be better etiquette to put the link in?

workingandtired 11y ago
I don't think it's necessary for the post. I figured the comments would be a nice place for it if people were curious.

carlosrg 11y ago

More like a story of someone that applied for a job that asks for Javascript skills without knowing Javascript and then blamed the company, and made a blog post/rant about it, because they hired someone else that probably fits that particular position better.

bramgg 11y ago
Agreed, I can't believe people are taking that blog post seriously. It's literally FizzBuzz we're talking about.
pyre 11y ago
The job description was a bit disjointed, and she chose to ignore relevant portions and focus on irrelevant ones. The company in question could have done a better job with the posting (wtf is a "B.Sc. in Design"?). On the other hand, her reaction that FizzBuzz is only for some uber CompSci geeks is nonsensical. First sentence from the Wikipedia page for FizzBuzz: Fizz buzz is a group word game for children to teach them about division.
dkersten 11y ago
I thought so too at first (and its not like FizzBuzz is hard), but if you read the post you'll see the job advert was for design, only listing JS as "HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript" after talking about design up until then (and then only listing further JS stuff as nice to haves). The person made clear that they can do all the design stuff and can use JS to add basic interaction to the frontend. The job post didn't ask for a programmer. I don't see how its the designers fault for not being a programmer.
- carlosrg 11y ago
  The job advert asked for someone that knows Javscript. This person doesn't know JavaScript. The person that got the job probably knew Javascript. I don't think this deserves a blog post ranting against that company because they asked you a Javascript question in, I repeat, a job listing that specifically asked for Javascript knowledge.
  - dkersten 11y ago
    The advertised job was for a "UX Engineer/Interaction Designer". The responsibilities listed were: * Create low and high-fidelity mockups to effectively convey interaction and design ideas (e.g. wireframes, sketches, 'pixel-perfect' mockups, etc). * Deliver engaging, innovative prototypes, and contribute to front-end development of our products. * Collaborate with and synthesize feedback from other members of the team. * Evaluate the usability of new and existing products, apply user research findings, and make constructive suggestions for improvements. The minimum qualifications: * B.S. degree in Design, Computer Science or related technical field or comparable practical experience. * 2 or more years of designing clean, valid, and compatible websites and applications. * Knowledge of Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator. * Clean and elegant visual design aesthetic. * HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript. * Passionate about creating responsive and delightful interfaces and experiences. Everything except the HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript. scream visual/ux designer. Nowhere does it say programmer. I don't think its a stretch that if you came across that job post that you would assume that Javascript is needed in a small way to tie bits and pieces together, like the author assumed. EVERY thing else in that post[1] is about UX or visual design. They didn't say they wanted a programmer, they said they wanted a designer who knows a small bit about technical things. I think the author fits the bill, especially since most job posts are now completely inflated with impossible requests (ten years experience in a technology that's only existed for five? I've seen it done!) [1] I'm ignoring the "preferred qualifications", since that heading makes it sound like nice to have not must have

Raphmedia 11y ago

I am a front-end guy, and I end up doing UX, design, back-end, bug tickets support, managing projects and clients and even back-end. If you try to stick to your job description, you are not going to be very helpful in the real world.

workingandtired 11y ago
I do the same, and it's pretty common. I feel like the point of the post is that if that is what a company expects, they should outline it in the initial job description to prevent wasting everybody's time. Just saying HTML/CSS/JS Angular/Backbone doesn't indicate what level of expertise you want or how big a part they'll play in the position.

sakri 11y ago

I'm fascinated by how involved people get in these kinds of stories. Hundreds of comments, and the mods been deleting a bunch. Post after post saying more or less the same thing. I need to figure out a way to channel this sentiment into an app and strike gold!

leppr 11y ago
I think you just invented Twitter, congratulation

efbbbf 11y ago

>and descriptions that are not representative of the job they're trying to hire for. The position is described as a UX engineer and designer, and the applicant is expected to be experienced with JS and various frameworks for it. The story seems to be more about a person who can't read and feels entitled to a job position they're not fit for. They were unable to display knowledge of basic for loops and conditionals and they were unable to convert a timecode string into seconds. Both of which are basically tests for "does this person even understand programming". Which they obviously don't because they wrote "OMG MATH" to a problem consisting only of the most basic logical concepts. Maybe next time they should apply for a job that doesn't require programming knowledge.

workingandtired 11y ago
I don't disagree with you that the job expected programming in their candidate. Nor should she have rationalized away the two lines that mentioned Javascript in description. However, I do believe that there is a communication error on the part of the company. A UI/UX Designer/Engineer does not inherently require programming. In many startups, it does, as does wearing many hats. But if they're looking for someone to program, it should be outlined in the responsibilities. Knowing "HTML/CSS/JS" is different than building an entire application (just an example). Not only that, but the line "Experienced with Object Oriented JavaScript and modern JavaScript libraries such as Ember, Backbone, or Angular." was placed under "Preferred Qualifications", which to me says "desirable but not necessarily required". If that's not what they meant, they should have clarified the importance. My personal opinion is that if a job wants you to build stuff, they should outright say "You will be responsible for developing and maintaing a code base, in addition to designing and lending UI/UX expertise" rather than just loading a job listing with keywords.
- nawitus 11y ago
  I think the job posting clearly communicated that the applicant should at least have a basic grasp of JavaScript. On a related note, it's weird that the author claims to have experience with Ember/Angular.js or other similar frameworks without being able to write the FizzBuzz.