6 ms·

Jython 2.7.0 Final Released

120 points by wasi0013 11y ago

gchp 11y ago
I read this as "finally released" :D
iso8859-1 11y ago
this is old news, it's from May 3.
- fs111 11y ago
  why did you not submit it then?
  - Rondom 11y ago
    Maybe because someone else already did so... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9483231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9483231
hnisdumb 11y ago
So I have the whitespace dictatorship, running on the diseased jvm? Sign me up!
geovizer 11y ago
I wanted to say "thanks" to the Jython team. I've been using Jython for a few years for a project (called STempo) that uses Java and Python. Jython has been a great bridge between them, we have run into a number of issues in the project but Jython has always been solid. The senior faculty on our project knows Python but not Java and she can happily develop in CPython and it always works fine when I bring it into Java-land (assuming no dependencies written in C have crept in). Bravo and thanks!
FreezerburnV 11y ago
Congratulations to the Jython team! I do have one question though which I can't seem to find a recent answer for: How's the performance of Jython these days? Especially with the 2.7.0 release. The most recent answers I could find on Google were for 2.5 from a few years back which said it was about comparable with CPython. (if that's still the case, that's fine, I'm just curious about that as Jython could make a nice scripting language on top of a Java project and I'd like to be able to keep performance considerations in mind)
- ericfrederich 11y ago
  Give it a shot. Very little work to get it embedded as a scripting language into an existing Java project. If performance becomes an issue look at Groovy, but it probably won't become an issue. Because its so easy to integrate you should just do it without even looking at performance.
  - vorg 11y ago
    > If performance becomes an issue look at Groovy Or JRuby, Clojure, Scala, or Nashorn.
    - Twirrim 11y ago
      How is Nashorn these days? I remember seeing there was a big performance fix in one of the JDK8 releases, but I haven't seen anything approaching real world benchmarks, just some very synthetic impractical stuff.
- cafebeen 11y ago
  Definitely worth trying--I've used it for the same purpose, and the only performance issue has been a slow startup time (several seconds to load standard libraries).
  - FreezerburnV 11y ago
    Do you know if it's possible to have the loading of the standard libraries offloaded to a separate thread? For example, if I have a program that displays a UI, can I have a progress bar or loading message (or even basic interactivity) using Java code while another thread gets the scripting part of the application spun up?
    - cafebeen 11y ago
      Yep, shouldn't be hard. There's pretty fine grained control over what gets loaded and when.
ericfrederich 11y ago
Congrats! Very useful project. I chatted with one of the main developers on freenode and he was very helpful. I was trying to get Jython working better with RPyC which turns out to be a nice way to integrate CPython with Java libraries.
616c 11y ago
So we read a lot on HN about how JRuby has taken off, in terms of Chris Seaton's work with Truffle, Graal, and dynamicinvoke research for Java. JRuby, with efforts by him and sepearate work by others, has shown that jokes aside, porting successful languages or language styles to Java (JRuby, Clojure, Scala, and others) has real benefits. I mean even if you hate Java/JVM stuff, you can use paradigms and tools, partially or completely, on a stack you hate. For some of us that is a godsend, and I think it shows how cool open source programming is, where people are porting whole runtimes and languages to mix-match for their pleasure. Now, with that in mind, I heard a long time ago, and it might be utter BS that Jython is way behind JRuby in terms of community, and very fairly, not as performant or robust bc there are only so many eyes for shallow bugs. Is this true? I see geovizer and others are making use of it, but others using it to good effect and it is worth their while? I am now studying Java academically, and played with Python for years. The idea of doing Django-REST-Framework on Jython instead of learning Rails-API for JRuby as trial by fire exercise, at least in my mind, is more appealing. So anyone know how realistic this is?
- lmm 11y ago
  I think the difference is that PyPy exists, so people who just want "a faster Python" tend to go there, whereas in ruby-land JRuby gets the people who just want "a faster Ruby" as well as those who want Ruby on the JVM. Honestly I wouldn't recommend trying to use Django on Jython (I'd be amazed if it all works), or really doing anything on either Jython or JRuby unless you're already familiar with all of the pieces. To understand and debug Jython properly you need a good understanding of both Python and Java. For a first JVM project, find something good and idiomatic in Java (I hear good things about Dropwizard) and use that.
  - codelike 11y ago
    While I haven't used Django on Jython personally yet, there exists an official page in the docs about 'Running Django on Jython': https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.8/howto/jython/ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.8/howto/jython/ So I'm guessing it should work fine and the comment above is probably too pessimistic about the situation.
wilsonfiifi 11y ago
Awesome news! I hope this gets officially integrated into Vert.x 2/3 [0][1]. [0] http://vertx.io/ http://vertx.io/ [1] https://github.com/rdolgushin/mod-lang-jython https://github.com/rdolgushin/mod-lang-jython
julienchastang 11y ago
Is anyone working on Jython integration with project Jupyter?
wlievens 11y ago
Now all we need is ctypes support :-) Get cracking Stefan!
pc2g4d 11y ago
I'm glad to see Jython make this progress. Unfortunately, it's still nearly 5 years behind Python itself---Python 2.7 was released in July 2010.[1] The leap to 2.7 is a huge deal, though, as that's the "gold standard" for Python 2 these days. [1]: https://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/ https://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/

120 points by wasi0013 11y ago

gchp 11y ago

I read this as "finally released" :D

iso8859-1 11y ago

this is old news, it's from May 3.

fs111 11y ago
why did you not submit it then?
- Rondom 11y ago
  Maybe because someone else already did so... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9483231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9483231

hnisdumb 11y ago

So I have the whitespace dictatorship, running on the diseased jvm? Sign me up!

geovizer 11y ago

I wanted to say "thanks" to the Jython team. I've been using Jython for a few years for a project (called STempo) that uses Java and Python. Jython has been a great bridge between them, we have run into a number of issues in the project but Jython has always been solid. The senior faculty on our project knows Python but not Java and she can happily develop in CPython and it always works fine when I bring it into Java-land (assuming no dependencies written in C have crept in). Bravo and thanks!

FreezerburnV 11y ago

Congratulations to the Jython team! I do have one question though which I can't seem to find a recent answer for: How's the performance of Jython these days? Especially with the 2.7.0 release. The most recent answers I could find on Google were for 2.5 from a few years back which said it was about comparable with CPython. (if that's still the case, that's fine, I'm just curious about that as Jython could make a nice scripting language on top of a Java project and I'd like to be able to keep performance considerations in mind)

ericfrederich 11y ago
Give it a shot. Very little work to get it embedded as a scripting language into an existing Java project. If performance becomes an issue look at Groovy, but it probably won't become an issue. Because its so easy to integrate you should just do it without even looking at performance.
- vorg 11y ago
  > If performance becomes an issue look at Groovy Or JRuby, Clojure, Scala, or Nashorn.
  - Twirrim 11y ago
    How is Nashorn these days? I remember seeing there was a big performance fix in one of the JDK8 releases, but I haven't seen anything approaching real world benchmarks, just some very synthetic impractical stuff.
cafebeen 11y ago
Definitely worth trying--I've used it for the same purpose, and the only performance issue has been a slow startup time (several seconds to load standard libraries).
- FreezerburnV 11y ago
  Do you know if it's possible to have the loading of the standard libraries offloaded to a separate thread? For example, if I have a program that displays a UI, can I have a progress bar or loading message (or even basic interactivity) using Java code while another thread gets the scripting part of the application spun up?
  - cafebeen 11y ago
    Yep, shouldn't be hard. There's pretty fine grained control over what gets loaded and when.

ericfrederich 11y ago

Congrats! Very useful project. I chatted with one of the main developers on freenode and he was very helpful. I was trying to get Jython working better with RPyC which turns out to be a nice way to integrate CPython with Java libraries.

616c 11y ago

So we read a lot on HN about how JRuby has taken off, in terms of Chris Seaton's work with Truffle, Graal, and dynamicinvoke research for Java. JRuby, with efforts by him and sepearate work by others, has shown that jokes aside, porting successful languages or language styles to Java (JRuby, Clojure, Scala, and others) has real benefits. I mean even if you hate Java/JVM stuff, you can use paradigms and tools, partially or completely, on a stack you hate. For some of us that is a godsend, and I think it shows how cool open source programming is, where people are porting whole runtimes and languages to mix-match for their pleasure. Now, with that in mind, I heard a long time ago, and it might be utter BS that Jython is way behind JRuby in terms of community, and very fairly, not as performant or robust bc there are only so many eyes for shallow bugs. Is this true? I see geovizer and others are making use of it, but others using it to good effect and it is worth their while? I am now studying Java academically, and played with Python for years. The idea of doing Django-REST-Framework on Jython instead of learning Rails-API for JRuby as trial by fire exercise, at least in my mind, is more appealing. So anyone know how realistic this is?

lmm 11y ago
I think the difference is that PyPy exists, so people who just want "a faster Python" tend to go there, whereas in ruby-land JRuby gets the people who just want "a faster Ruby" as well as those who want Ruby on the JVM. Honestly I wouldn't recommend trying to use Django on Jython (I'd be amazed if it all works), or really doing anything on either Jython or JRuby unless you're already familiar with all of the pieces. To understand and debug Jython properly you need a good understanding of both Python and Java. For a first JVM project, find something good and idiomatic in Java (I hear good things about Dropwizard) and use that.
- codelike 11y ago
  While I haven't used Django on Jython personally yet, there exists an official page in the docs about 'Running Django on Jython': https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.8/howto/jython/ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.8/howto/jython/ So I'm guessing it should work fine and the comment above is probably too pessimistic about the situation.

wilsonfiifi 11y ago

Awesome news! I hope this gets officially integrated into Vert.x 2/3 [0][1]. [0] http://vertx.io/ http://vertx.io/ [1] https://github.com/rdolgushin/mod-lang-jython https://github.com/rdolgushin/mod-lang-jython

julienchastang 11y ago

Is anyone working on Jython integration with project Jupyter?

wlievens 11y ago

Now all we need is ctypes support :-) Get cracking Stefan!

pc2g4d 11y ago

I'm glad to see Jython make this progress. Unfortunately, it's still nearly 5 years behind Python itself---Python 2.7 was released in July 2010.[1] The leap to 2.7 is a huge deal, though, as that's the "gold standard" for Python 2 these days. [1]: https://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/ https://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/