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I don't. With a manufacturer direct sale you don't know what a reasonable price because they would never have to tiers of pricing which could be found out and

I don't. With a manufacturer direct sale you don't know what a reasonable price because they would never have to tiers of pricing which could be found out and exposed as so called "invoice" and similar pricing is done with regular car dealers. I also do not support direct sales where dealerships have throughout the years established the brand in question. Now for new brands who are wholly unrelated to a current established brand I take no issue with. However to say that GM or Ford should be able to bypass the dealership model which they already abuse with must carry and demo rules would not be remotely fair as the customer relationships were established not by GM or Ford but instead by the dealers. However I do not support the idea that manufacturers or their assigned dealerships should be the only businesses who can repair or service any part of a vehicle. As for car buying, doing it this week. Never once in thirty years and a dozen cars or motorcycles have I ever had an issue buying or selling car. The majority of horror stories come from used dealerships serving people who cannot afford down payments or the like. tl;dr dealerships helped establish brand loyalty for older car makers and that investment needs some protection from poaching of customers with a manufacturer direct model you never know if you are getting a deal and have convince yourself irrationally that you are

technofiend 12y ago
I don't consider it a "horror story" but I did end up shopping around for my last car, including a trip to the closest dealership. Selling me a car would have been a great deal for those guys as my wife insisted that we do every repair at the dealership. Trust me the purchase price was nothing next to the maintenance outlay over the following decade for that lemon. Still the guys closest to me when presented with the paperwork from another dealership for an already closed deal and the question "Would you care to match this price for another one?" started the "OK, cool your jets here while we go talk about nothing in the ``manager's'' office for twenty minutes" game. I walked out and bought at the next closest dealership which gladly accepted the deal. It was simple math. As an hourly contractor those guys were literally taking money out of my pocket every minute they wasted.
mikeash 12y ago
Price discovery for directly sold cars would work as it does in any other industry, through competition. If Brand X sells a car for $PRICE while Brand Y sells a basically identical car for $PRICE * 0.75, that discrepancy won't last long. And really, that's how it works now, it's just more difficult. "Invoice" price is a lie that the car manufacturers and dealers collaborate on to screw you. It does not reflect the actual cost to the dealer in any way. The only reason that number exists is to make you feel like you got such a good deal that you fleeced the dealer, while they laugh all the way to the bank.
chisleu 12y ago
> With a manufacturer direct sale you don't know what a reasonable price because they would never have to tiers of pricing which could be found out and exposed as so called "invoice" and similar pricing is done with regular car dealers. Right, but it would eliminate overhead and economics says that reduces cost because Ford isn't going for maximum profits, it is going for acceptable profits in the marketplace. My particular issue of needing a particular model aside, the manufacturers are still competing with manufacturers. If Tesla has done nothing else, he has shown that if there is a niche that isn't being filled by the manufacturers, that startup can compete. If the manufacturers overprice their cars, they create a niche for someone to move in on. Their current pricing model reflects this, but the dealership era is the past. They came about when car companies were going out of business all of the time and people wanted to deal with someone who had been in their town for a long time. They wanted to buy the exact something they could see and warranties were nearly useless. Now we have the internet. If Ford screws someone over in Florida, California hears about it the same day. Because of the competition that the internet has created, dealerships have had to move closer and closer to a 3% profit on sales or lose business. This has put many dealers out of business already. It is only a matter of time. I hope.

technofiend 12y ago

I don't consider it a "horror story" but I did end up shopping around for my last car, including a trip to the closest dealership. Selling me a car would have been a great deal for those guys as my wife insisted that we do every repair at the dealership. Trust me the purchase price was nothing next to the maintenance outlay over the following decade for that lemon. Still the guys closest to me when presented with the paperwork from another dealership for an already closed deal and the question "Would you care to match this price for another one?" started the "OK, cool your jets here while we go talk about nothing in the ``manager's'' office for twenty minutes" game. I walked out and bought at the next closest dealership which gladly accepted the deal. It was simple math. As an hourly contractor those guys were literally taking money out of my pocket every minute they wasted.

mikeash 12y ago

Price discovery for directly sold cars would work as it does in any other industry, through competition. If Brand X sells a car for $PRICE while Brand Y sells a basically identical car for $PRICE * 0.75, that discrepancy won't last long. And really, that's how it works now, it's just more difficult. "Invoice" price is a lie that the car manufacturers and dealers collaborate on to screw you. It does not reflect the actual cost to the dealer in any way. The only reason that number exists is to make you feel like you got such a good deal that you fleeced the dealer, while they laugh all the way to the bank.

chisleu 12y ago

> With a manufacturer direct sale you don't know what a reasonable price because they would never have to tiers of pricing which could be found out and exposed as so called "invoice" and similar pricing is done with regular car dealers. Right, but it would eliminate overhead and economics says that reduces cost because Ford isn't going for maximum profits, it is going for acceptable profits in the marketplace. My particular issue of needing a particular model aside, the manufacturers are still competing with manufacturers. If Tesla has done nothing else, he has shown that if there is a niche that isn't being filled by the manufacturers, that startup can compete. If the manufacturers overprice their cars, they create a niche for someone to move in on. Their current pricing model reflects this, but the dealership era is the past. They came about when car companies were going out of business all of the time and people wanted to deal with someone who had been in their town for a long time. They wanted to buy the exact something they could see and warranties were nearly useless. Now we have the internet. If Ford screws someone over in Florida, California hears about it the same day. Because of the competition that the internet has created, dealerships have had to move closer and closer to a 3% profit on sales or lose business. This has put many dealers out of business already. It is only a matter of time. I hope.