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> You should revisit your first three paragraphs to understand why people are okay with Carmax's prices. It's pretty simple, they're willing to pay extra to av

by pfraze 11y ago

> You should revisit your first three paragraphs to understand why people are okay with Carmax's prices. It's pretty simple, they're willing to pay extra to avoid negotiation > Buying a car should not be war, it should not be a hassle, and you should not have to wonder the entire time how you're going to get screwed. Why not? If you have a business idea ("it shouldnt be a hassle!") then go for it. But if you think negotiating is unfair, well, yeah, of course it's unfair. File that next to "The Spurs lost" and "I'm not married to a supermodel."

nitrogen 11y ago
It's pretty simple, they're willing to pay extra to avoid negotiation Negotiation costs time and stress. If one has more money than time and stress tolerance, it makes sense to pay to skip the negotiation.
- pfraze 11y ago
  I dont disagree, legit reason.
- basseq 11y ago
  You can very easily save a couple thousand dollars in negotiation. I understand the TVM, and I see the value in two ways: 1. I can sit around a dealer for a couple hours and save a couple thousand bucks: that's $500-$1k/hr. Pretty good (e.g., worth my time). 2. I get to practice my negotiation skills. This has gotten fun. And while I will likely never be in the position of negotiating for large amounts (e.g., sale of a business), in that instance a 10% delta could equate to hundreds of thousands of dollars. I bought a pre-owned car a couple months ago from a high-end, reputable dealer. They pulled the "that guy over there is interested in the same car" trick. I was tempted to go over an introduce myself (should have). Instead I told them the color wasn't my first choice and they should sell to the other guy. I was told the manager came over to "say goodbye" (no he wasn't), so I stood up and put on my coat. We reached a deal. My wife was freaking out. It was fun.
tokipin 11y ago
> Why not? i'd say it means the market isn't being allowed to work or even exist in the first place, which is the whole point of this discussion. 'going for it' is exactly what the establishments are trying to keep Tesla from doing.
pyre 11y ago
> But if you think negotiating is unfair, well, yeah, of course it's unfair. File that next to "The Spurs lost" and "I'm not married to a supermodel." So you accept and encourage car salesmen to take advantage of people with poor negotiating skills (or people that are easily manipulated)? Do these people deserve to have their money taken from them, or does their lack of skill mean that they shouldn't be buying a car at all?
- omeid2 11y ago
  I agree with the principles of what you are saying; but practically speaking: where does one draws the line? How does that differs from everyday --most often misleading and pretty much fake-- Advertisement? How about mortgage? Surely that is nothing more than ripping off the poor.
  - squeeze 11y ago
    Both of those examples are objectively awful things, used by desperate people to attain control over others.
  - pyre 11y ago
    In the US, people don't really haggle every day. It's not part of the culture. This stands in stark contrast to the experience of buying a car, which is something people are never going to do frequently enough to build up haggling skills. So it's really context dependent. In a culture where people haggle constantly (or at least more frequently), then a larger portion of people will have the relevant skill set to navigate these waters. I guess you could "solve" it by building haggling into the culture, but you could also "solve" it by forcing car dealerships to normalize with the way that most other average purchases work.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Don't know much about mortgage, but advertising is clearly a legalized and glorified antisocial behaviour. Somehow lying and tricking people into parting with their money is a respactable occupation nowadays.
- 11y ago

by pfraze 11y ago

nitrogen 11y ago

It's pretty simple, they're willing to pay extra to avoid negotiation Negotiation costs time and stress. If one has more money than time and stress tolerance, it makes sense to pay to skip the negotiation.

pfraze 11y ago
I dont disagree, legit reason.
basseq 11y ago
You can very easily save a couple thousand dollars in negotiation. I understand the TVM, and I see the value in two ways: 1. I can sit around a dealer for a couple hours and save a couple thousand bucks: that's $500-$1k/hr. Pretty good (e.g., worth my time). 2. I get to practice my negotiation skills. This has gotten fun. And while I will likely never be in the position of negotiating for large amounts (e.g., sale of a business), in that instance a 10% delta could equate to hundreds of thousands of dollars. I bought a pre-owned car a couple months ago from a high-end, reputable dealer. They pulled the "that guy over there is interested in the same car" trick. I was tempted to go over an introduce myself (should have). Instead I told them the color wasn't my first choice and they should sell to the other guy. I was told the manager came over to "say goodbye" (no he wasn't), so I stood up and put on my coat. We reached a deal. My wife was freaking out. It was fun.

tokipin 11y ago

> Why not? i'd say it means the market isn't being allowed to work or even exist in the first place, which is the whole point of this discussion. 'going for it' is exactly what the establishments are trying to keep Tesla from doing.

pyre 11y ago

> But if you think negotiating is unfair, well, yeah, of course it's unfair. File that next to "The Spurs lost" and "I'm not married to a supermodel." So you accept and encourage car salesmen to take advantage of people with poor negotiating skills (or people that are easily manipulated)? Do these people deserve to have their money taken from them, or does their lack of skill mean that they shouldn't be buying a car at all?

omeid2 11y ago
I agree with the principles of what you are saying; but practically speaking: where does one draws the line? How does that differs from everyday --most often misleading and pretty much fake-- Advertisement? How about mortgage? Surely that is nothing more than ripping off the poor.
- squeeze 11y ago
  Both of those examples are objectively awful things, used by desperate people to attain control over others.
- pyre 11y ago
  In the US, people don't really haggle every day. It's not part of the culture. This stands in stark contrast to the experience of buying a car, which is something people are never going to do frequently enough to build up haggling skills. So it's really context dependent. In a culture where people haggle constantly (or at least more frequently), then a larger portion of people will have the relevant skill set to navigate these waters. I guess you could "solve" it by building haggling into the culture, but you could also "solve" it by forcing car dealerships to normalize with the way that most other average purchases work.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Don't know much about mortgage, but advertising is clearly a legalized and glorified antisocial behaviour. Somehow lying and tricking people into parting with their money is a respactable occupation nowadays.
11y ago