8 ms·

This is true. The buyer has all the power in a car purchase, especially for a sports car or motorcycle which are nonessential to daily life. I'll tell you tw

This is true. The buyer has all the power in a car purchase, especially for a sports car or motorcycle which are nonessential to daily life. I'll tell you two stories of acquaintances. One wanted a Lamborghini, so he researched what he wanted, drew up a letter to the dealer and included a cashier check for the price he was willing to pay, and a return envelope. Initially the dealer responded in the negative, but without returning the check. Six months later his car arrived. I accompanied another friend to a motorcycle dealer. He had previously negotiated the price of the bike and brought cash in that amount. He puts the cash on the counter, and the salesman starts running this game about how the owner really likes that bike and doesn't want to sell it, except at a higher price, and all this. The buyer reaches into the giant stack of cash -- thousands of dollars in $20 bills always seems like a lot of money -- counts out a thousand dollars, and puts it in his pocket. He says the remaining amount of money is the most he's willing to pay after hearing the salesman's story. The salesman disappears, comes back and desperately tries to close the deal at the original price, but eventually has to settle for the money that's literally on the table. There is almost nobody more desperate than a car salesman, so dealing with them is actually pretty easy.

ccvannorman 11y ago
This has to be the best example of "cash talks" that I've ever heard. Definitely going to keep this one in my back pocket!
deegles 11y ago
As much as I would like to do this to a shady used car salesman, I'm hoping I will never need purchase a car again. I'm going to use public transport, biking, walking and carsharing until self-driving cars arrive. I'm sure many millennials are in the same boat.
- robbintt 11y ago
  Yep, car free since 2010!
- ekianjo 11y ago
  If you live in any modern city (not sure about the US though since the car culture is prevalent there in most places) you usually don't need a car for daily activities or going to work. But once you want to have 1) kids 2) a bigger place 3) some land instead of just an apartment, you will end up living farther from the city and having to own a car at some point, unless you have a very large income that can accommodate such standards of livings right inside the city.
  - thrownaway2424 11y ago
    I'm not a believer in kids=cars and I don't like to see it propagated, even if it's true for many Anericans. There was a feature in the New Tork Times in the last few weeks about how rapidly cargo biking is gaining popularity with families. I ride to school with my older child and there are half a dozen other families doing the same thing. Globally it is absurd to suggest that children require cars. It is a uniquely American perspective.
    - ekianjo 11y ago
      > It is a uniquely American perspective. Nope, in Japanese cities rents are very expensive, and if you want to have space for more than one kid you either need to start doing three jobs to afford a bigger place, or start packing and leave further away where a car is much more likely to be needed. You only have efficient public transportation inside the large metropolitan centers, once you are a little out of that, your options drop progressively. Do the math.
    - raverbashing 11y ago
      > It is a uniquely American perspective. Citation needed. Oh wait, there is none, because you are wrong. You may get by with public transportation for commuting and taking the kids to school, but unless you want to get stuck at the house on weekends, you will need a car, unless you want to live in the city center.
      - vidarh 11y ago
        > but unless you want to get stuck at the house on weekends, you will need a car, unless you want to live in the city center. Sounds like a mostly American perspective to me. I'm Norwegian, living in the UK, with a 6 year old son. I did consider getting a drivers license (never felt the need for one before) when we had our son, and it was a bit tiresome when he was too little to walk, but I don't feel a need for it any more. Maybe I'll get a drivers license one day, but I don't bet on it (I'm 40 and have done just fine so far) Certainly there are plenty of people in Europe and elsewhere who see a car as a nice convenience that becomes even nicer to have when you get a kid, but I don't know many people that see it as a necessity.
- mlucero 11y ago
  Not sure if you've ever heard of Carmax, but it's designed to be the opposite of what you experienced. I used them to basically order the car I wanted over the internet. I browsed their site, found the cheapest one in their inventory, and paid to have it shipped to my local Carmax. They called me to let me know the car was there and I went and test drove it. The price was set, so no haggling, and just friendly service. It was the best experience and probably the only way i'll buy a car again. Check it out next time... it really was surprisingly good service... ps. I've had the car for 6 years and ended up being an overall terrific buy...
  - deegles 11y ago
    My problem isn't so much with the car-buying process, it's with the concept of car ownership, full stop. I don't want to own a depreciating asset, deal with maintenance, parking, insurance and other costs. Most importantly, I believe in denser, more walk-able cities and I'm going to do my (small) part to make that happen by supporting alternative transport.
  - xacaxulu 11y ago
    If you buy slightly nicer luxury-ish vehicles (M-series BMW, E/S class Mercedes, Audi, Porsche) the extended warranties are unbeatable. It's nice getting a Porsche Cayman rebuilt for $150 deductible because you purchased a $4500 100,000 mile warranty. Jalopnik had a write-up on a guy who bought the much maligned Range Rover and basically recouped his purchase cost in 1 or 2 warranty-covered repairs.
- ghaff 11y ago
  If you're waiting for self-driving cars in the sense of ordering one from your phone to pick you up at an arbitrary location, I'm afraid you're going to be waiting a long time. The fact that autopilot systems seem to work pretty well on highways in good weather has IMO made a lot of people way way optimistic about robo-Uber arriving in timescales less than multiple decades. I'd love to be wrong but there's a huge gap between works pretty well on highways and can negotiate city streets to an arbitrary location without a human present.
- akgerber 11y ago
  If you engineer your life to never need a car, you'll likewise always be in the position of power while buying one.
PopeOfNope 11y ago
I used to work at a car dealership as a title clerk. You are right about one thing: car salesmen are desperate. They're being conned just as much as the buyers are. Their ability to support their families is tied to their commission. At the dealership I worked at, the salesmen literally drew lots to see how much of their base salary they would have to pay to the company that month in "operating costs." The theory behind that one was to keep the salesmen keen to close sales. That was my first job, but I've had dozens since and nowhere else have I seen such unambiguously shady and downright illegal behavior occur under one roof, almost entirely by the senior management and higher. The rank and file weren't too bad. Every one of them would tell me to learn all I could there, but go back to college so I wouldn't have to do what they did for a living.
- kibibu 11y ago
  Thanks for some perspective from the other side. It's too easy to demonize people who I'm sure don't want to be engaging in this bullshit in the first place. I'm sure there are sales staff who get off on shafting customers, but I don't think you can say it's all of em.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    "Just doing my job/following orders." does not work as an excuse for their behavior. I will not do anything illegal to a sales person, but I find the only approach that safeguards yourself is to treat them as a being lacking empathy and with a distaste for anything truthful unless it benefits them. Too many times I had to work with friends/family who were outright lied to by those desperate to close a sale.
- basseq 11y ago
  I read Chandler Phillips' Confessions of a Car Salesman last year (originally published in 2009) and found it really interesting/telling: http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/confessions-of-a-car-salesman.html http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/confessions-of-a-car-sales...
ddingus 11y ago
That "show the money" story is old school brutal all kinds of awesome. Thanks for sharing it.
raverbashing 11y ago
Relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4986790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4986790

ccvannorman 11y ago

This has to be the best example of "cash talks" that I've ever heard. Definitely going to keep this one in my back pocket!

deegles 11y ago

As much as I would like to do this to a shady used car salesman, I'm hoping I will never need purchase a car again. I'm going to use public transport, biking, walking and carsharing until self-driving cars arrive. I'm sure many millennials are in the same boat.

robbintt 11y ago
Yep, car free since 2010!
ekianjo 11y ago
If you live in any modern city (not sure about the US though since the car culture is prevalent there in most places) you usually don't need a car for daily activities or going to work. But once you want to have 1) kids 2) a bigger place 3) some land instead of just an apartment, you will end up living farther from the city and having to own a car at some point, unless you have a very large income that can accommodate such standards of livings right inside the city.
- thrownaway2424 11y ago
  I'm not a believer in kids=cars and I don't like to see it propagated, even if it's true for many Anericans. There was a feature in the New Tork Times in the last few weeks about how rapidly cargo biking is gaining popularity with families. I ride to school with my older child and there are half a dozen other families doing the same thing. Globally it is absurd to suggest that children require cars. It is a uniquely American perspective.
  - ekianjo 11y ago
    > It is a uniquely American perspective. Nope, in Japanese cities rents are very expensive, and if you want to have space for more than one kid you either need to start doing three jobs to afford a bigger place, or start packing and leave further away where a car is much more likely to be needed. You only have efficient public transportation inside the large metropolitan centers, once you are a little out of that, your options drop progressively. Do the math.
  - raverbashing 11y ago
    > It is a uniquely American perspective. Citation needed. Oh wait, there is none, because you are wrong. You may get by with public transportation for commuting and taking the kids to school, but unless you want to get stuck at the house on weekends, you will need a car, unless you want to live in the city center.
    - vidarh 11y ago
      > but unless you want to get stuck at the house on weekends, you will need a car, unless you want to live in the city center. Sounds like a mostly American perspective to me. I'm Norwegian, living in the UK, with a 6 year old son. I did consider getting a drivers license (never felt the need for one before) when we had our son, and it was a bit tiresome when he was too little to walk, but I don't feel a need for it any more. Maybe I'll get a drivers license one day, but I don't bet on it (I'm 40 and have done just fine so far) Certainly there are plenty of people in Europe and elsewhere who see a car as a nice convenience that becomes even nicer to have when you get a kid, but I don't know many people that see it as a necessity.
mlucero 11y ago
Not sure if you've ever heard of Carmax, but it's designed to be the opposite of what you experienced. I used them to basically order the car I wanted over the internet. I browsed their site, found the cheapest one in their inventory, and paid to have it shipped to my local Carmax. They called me to let me know the car was there and I went and test drove it. The price was set, so no haggling, and just friendly service. It was the best experience and probably the only way i'll buy a car again. Check it out next time... it really was surprisingly good service... ps. I've had the car for 6 years and ended up being an overall terrific buy...
- deegles 11y ago
  My problem isn't so much with the car-buying process, it's with the concept of car ownership, full stop. I don't want to own a depreciating asset, deal with maintenance, parking, insurance and other costs. Most importantly, I believe in denser, more walk-able cities and I'm going to do my (small) part to make that happen by supporting alternative transport.
- xacaxulu 11y ago
  If you buy slightly nicer luxury-ish vehicles (M-series BMW, E/S class Mercedes, Audi, Porsche) the extended warranties are unbeatable. It's nice getting a Porsche Cayman rebuilt for $150 deductible because you purchased a $4500 100,000 mile warranty. Jalopnik had a write-up on a guy who bought the much maligned Range Rover and basically recouped his purchase cost in 1 or 2 warranty-covered repairs.
ghaff 11y ago
If you're waiting for self-driving cars in the sense of ordering one from your phone to pick you up at an arbitrary location, I'm afraid you're going to be waiting a long time. The fact that autopilot systems seem to work pretty well on highways in good weather has IMO made a lot of people way way optimistic about robo-Uber arriving in timescales less than multiple decades. I'd love to be wrong but there's a huge gap between works pretty well on highways and can negotiate city streets to an arbitrary location without a human present.
akgerber 11y ago
If you engineer your life to never need a car, you'll likewise always be in the position of power while buying one.

PopeOfNope 11y ago

I used to work at a car dealership as a title clerk. You are right about one thing: car salesmen are desperate. They're being conned just as much as the buyers are. Their ability to support their families is tied to their commission. At the dealership I worked at, the salesmen literally drew lots to see how much of their base salary they would have to pay to the company that month in "operating costs." The theory behind that one was to keep the salesmen keen to close sales. That was my first job, but I've had dozens since and nowhere else have I seen such unambiguously shady and downright illegal behavior occur under one roof, almost entirely by the senior management and higher. The rank and file weren't too bad. Every one of them would tell me to learn all I could there, but go back to college so I wouldn't have to do what they did for a living.

kibibu 11y ago
Thanks for some perspective from the other side. It's too easy to demonize people who I'm sure don't want to be engaging in this bullshit in the first place. I'm sure there are sales staff who get off on shafting customers, but I don't think you can say it's all of em.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  "Just doing my job/following orders." does not work as an excuse for their behavior. I will not do anything illegal to a sales person, but I find the only approach that safeguards yourself is to treat them as a being lacking empathy and with a distaste for anything truthful unless it benefits them. Too many times I had to work with friends/family who were outright lied to by those desperate to close a sale.
basseq 11y ago
I read Chandler Phillips' Confessions of a Car Salesman last year (originally published in 2009) and found it really interesting/telling: http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/confessions-of-a-car-salesman.html http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/confessions-of-a-car-sales...

ddingus 11y ago

That "show the money" story is old school brutal all kinds of awesome. Thanks for sharing it.

raverbashing 11y ago

Relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4986790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4986790