3 ms·

Perhaps I'm too cynical, but if I had to guess I'd say cryonics companies don't give a damn about future ethical and/or legal implications as long as it's a pro

by Mahn 11y ago

Perhaps I'm too cynical, but if I had to guess I'd say cryonics companies don't give a damn about future ethical and/or legal implications as long as it's a profitable business as it stands today. I very much doubt they have plan on what to do with the brains or bodies they preserve, though I'd love to be proven otherwise.

mhartl 11y ago
On the contrary, such concerns are of paramount importance to cryonics organizations. A good place to start is the Alcor Patient Care Trust [1]: At Alcor, patient storage costs are paid from the Patient Care Trust. This conservative funding arrangement is designed to cover the cost of patient storage solely from the income from the Trust, thereby assuring that such funding will continue indefinitely into the future. The irrevocable Patient Care Trust is included under Alcor's tax-exempt status, but nevertheless is a separate legal entity that provides liability protection for these assets. This arrangement is one of the reasons our members have confidence in Alcor. It doesn't do any good to use the most advanced techniques to get our members into cryopreservation unless we can keep them there, as well as build capital to eventually fund revival and reintegration. Ongoing care for cryopreservation patients is the number one element of our purpose in being cryonicists, and financial protection for the patients is a critical component of this. There is no use in starting this possibly centuries-long project, if we don't do centuries-long financial planning. Providing this kind of protection through a conservative, long-term view of storage costs is one of the main reasons why cryopreservation costs so much. [1]: http://www.alcor.org/AboutAlcor/patientcaretrustfund.html http://www.alcor.org/AboutAlcor/patientcaretrustfund.html
- coldtea 11y ago
  >On the contrary, such concerns are of paramount importance to cryonics organizations. Legally. Not ethically. Most business owners in this "industry" could not care less.
  - deciplex 11y ago
    Do you have some reason for believing this, or are you just being cynical? (Not that I have any particular problem with cynicism, rather I'm honestly curious.) I know of some serious breaches of ethics early in the history of cryonics, however I know of nothing that would besmirch Alcor in particular at least. If there is something I'd like to know about it.
    - coldtea 11y ago
      I feel like I have legitimate reasons, from everything I know about humanity and history, to start from a cynical standpoint, especially regarding certain areas. E.g. mails that announce me that I won some lottery. Random people offering to sell me cheap "authentic" Rolex on the street. Attempts to bring down some government to bring "democracy" to a country. Cryonics.
  - rictic 11y ago
    [citation needed]
    - coldtea 11y ago
      How about you bring me the citations that show that they care about morality in such a line of work? Or do you think assuming everybody is moral in every line of business is a baseline for how the universe is and everything more cynical is some sort of extra-ordinary claim? If yes, then you'd be surprised. That's the corollary to what P. T. Barnum said, that "there's a sucker born every minute". What they do, is sell hope to rich people, working at the inside edges of pseudo-science.
      - Jach 11y ago
        Did you even read the link already provided? I advise you to look into the history of the people on the Trust Board, and the people on Alcor's board of directors, and the people of Alcor's general staff. Note how many are members of Alcor, or who have family members already being preserved, and thus have a personal interest in the mission succeeding. How about you browse their library and see what things are being discussed and by whom? http://www.alcor.org/Library/index.html http://www.alcor.org/Library/index.html Then consider you don't even have to be rich. As already noted on this very page (ed: I see you already noted that), it costs $80k to suspend your head with Alcor. Not $800k, which would still be pretty reasonable and not only for the rich, because someone in their 30s can pay only $60/mo for a 20-year life insurance policy paying out $1m. Edit2: I'd also ask you to wonder if the company is evil, but trying to hide it so they can fool rich people, wouldn't they want to hide something like this which can be so easily used to characterize them as evil? http://www.alcor.org/Library/html/bringingdixieback.html http://www.alcor.org/Library/html/bringingdixieback.html
- beloch 11y ago
  Any respectable cryonics company is going to have to think about this and attempt to plan for the future, but there are just too many unknowns. Will there be major market disruptions that could impact even a conservatively managed fund? What will the costs of revival and integration be? What should be done with those who were imperfectly preserved?

by Mahn 11y ago

mhartl 11y ago

On the contrary, such concerns are of paramount importance to cryonics organizations. A good place to start is the Alcor Patient Care Trust [1]: At Alcor, patient storage costs are paid from the Patient Care Trust. This conservative funding arrangement is designed to cover the cost of patient storage solely from the income from the Trust, thereby assuring that such funding will continue indefinitely into the future. The irrevocable Patient Care Trust is included under Alcor's tax-exempt status, but nevertheless is a separate legal entity that provides liability protection for these assets. This arrangement is one of the reasons our members have confidence in Alcor. It doesn't do any good to use the most advanced techniques to get our members into cryopreservation unless we can keep them there, as well as build capital to eventually fund revival and reintegration. Ongoing care for cryopreservation patients is the number one element of our purpose in being cryonicists, and financial protection for the patients is a critical component of this. There is no use in starting this possibly centuries-long project, if we don't do centuries-long financial planning. Providing this kind of protection through a conservative, long-term view of storage costs is one of the main reasons why cryopreservation costs so much. [1]: http://www.alcor.org/AboutAlcor/patientcaretrustfund.html http://www.alcor.org/AboutAlcor/patientcaretrustfund.html

coldtea 11y ago
>On the contrary, such concerns are of paramount importance to cryonics organizations. Legally. Not ethically. Most business owners in this "industry" could not care less.
- deciplex 11y ago
  Do you have some reason for believing this, or are you just being cynical? (Not that I have any particular problem with cynicism, rather I'm honestly curious.) I know of some serious breaches of ethics early in the history of cryonics, however I know of nothing that would besmirch Alcor in particular at least. If there is something I'd like to know about it.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    I feel like I have legitimate reasons, from everything I know about humanity and history, to start from a cynical standpoint, especially regarding certain areas. E.g. mails that announce me that I won some lottery. Random people offering to sell me cheap "authentic" Rolex on the street. Attempts to bring down some government to bring "democracy" to a country. Cryonics.
- rictic 11y ago
  [citation needed]
  - coldtea 11y ago
    How about you bring me the citations that show that they care about morality in such a line of work? Or do you think assuming everybody is moral in every line of business is a baseline for how the universe is and everything more cynical is some sort of extra-ordinary claim? If yes, then you'd be surprised. That's the corollary to what P. T. Barnum said, that "there's a sucker born every minute". What they do, is sell hope to rich people, working at the inside edges of pseudo-science.
    - Jach 11y ago
      Did you even read the link already provided? I advise you to look into the history of the people on the Trust Board, and the people on Alcor's board of directors, and the people of Alcor's general staff. Note how many are members of Alcor, or who have family members already being preserved, and thus have a personal interest in the mission succeeding. How about you browse their library and see what things are being discussed and by whom? http://www.alcor.org/Library/index.html http://www.alcor.org/Library/index.html Then consider you don't even have to be rich. As already noted on this very page (ed: I see you already noted that), it costs $80k to suspend your head with Alcor. Not $800k, which would still be pretty reasonable and not only for the rich, because someone in their 30s can pay only $60/mo for a 20-year life insurance policy paying out $1m. Edit2: I'd also ask you to wonder if the company is evil, but trying to hide it so they can fool rich people, wouldn't they want to hide something like this which can be so easily used to characterize them as evil? http://www.alcor.org/Library/html/bringingdixieback.html http://www.alcor.org/Library/html/bringingdixieback.html
beloch 11y ago
Any respectable cryonics company is going to have to think about this and attempt to plan for the future, but there are just too many unknowns. Will there be major market disruptions that could impact even a conservatively managed fund? What will the costs of revival and integration be? What should be done with those who were imperfectly preserved?