4 ms·

As a german with not a iota of patriotism, aside from a little pride in the social institutions still maintained here, i'm honestly curious: Where do you see n

As a german with not a iota of patriotism, aside from a little pride in the social institutions still maintained here, i'm honestly curious: Where do you see nationalism increasing in germany?

themodelplumber 12y ago
Well, I'm just an outsider, but I seem to be seeing things like this more frequently with regards to the larger European countries: http://news.yahoo.com/germany-grapples-rise-anti-foreigner-movement-161137335.html http://news.yahoo.com/germany-grapples-rise-anti-foreigner-m... Edit--video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFmnz4ROEo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFmnz4ROEo
- Mithaldu 12y ago
  Thank you, it's good to be aware of how things look to outsides. Personally i'm not very worried about things like that because these people do considerable effort to mark themselves to the rest of the country as inconsequential crazy people, by way of adopting styles of fashion (grooming, clothes) in line with current neo nazis. But it makes sense that people from other countries would not be able to pick up on such subtle clues.
anarazel 12y ago
Maybe I'm just oversensitive or not modern enough. But the way cities look these days e.g. around football (soccer) games scares the shit out of me. A black-red-gold sea of flags. In Germany. Brr. Less trivial, but Germany is one of the major forces controlling EU's border policies - and that's a wider form of nationalism and protectionism that pretty directly costs lives. Political forces like AFD and pegida (legida, ...) aren't exactly a sign of receding nationalism either.
- idlewords 12y ago
  I've always thought of football as a safety valve for European nationalism, particularly in Germany, where there aren't a lot of opportunities to wave the flag and get tribal without creeping everybody out. Having those displays (mostly) demoted from politics to sport has been a huge cultural victory for the older EU members.
PythonicAlpha 12y ago
As a German with also no patriotism: I think, Germany is starting from a very low point here and particularly my generation (post war, but not so much post) is rather uncommitted to the own nation. But, I see some new nationalism breeding particularly in younger generations and in the less intellectual people. Patriotism was and is always a means of finding some meaning in life and something to be proud about. When you look, how people are treated from other nations, than I see very much undercover nationalism. Of course, we are still at a low level, because of our history and because the media does not enforce nationalism like in other countries ... but I think, that we can not take our own attitude and think that everybody has it. I see nationalism rising again in many countries in Europe and in the world today. In the same time, egoism is rising (what partially counteracts to nationalism, partially reinforces patriotism). I think, we see the age of egoism rising today. What it will end up, who knows?
coldtea 11y ago
>Where do you see nationalism increasing in germany? In Germany's behavior within the E.U. and open desire to rule Europe? In their characterizing of Southern countries (even in popular media read by millions, etc) with terms used in the past to describe Jews? (from "lazy" and "pests" to "traitors" and "PIIGS"). In the frequent verbal attacks immigrants from Greece (for example) face in Germany, in shops and public spaces?
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  Note that i'm not asking because i'm doubting, but because i'm really clueless and wondering what i'm missing. > In the frequent verbal attacks immigrants from Greece (for example) face in Germany, in shops and public spaces? I've lived in Stralsund, Berlin and now Hannover, and i'm extremely surprised that such a thing would happen. Have you seen that personally?
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >Have you seen that personally? I've had it told to me by several people that migrated during the crisis, and have read several articles on it on Greek media. Here's an example from an older article on similar issue (but with a happy ending): Elsa Athanasiou, owner of Athos, complained to authorities that she has started receiving letters and phone calls saying things like “Go back to your stinking country!” or “Pigs, go home!” http://eu.greekreporter.com/2015/03/22/germans-protect-greek-restaurant-from-racist-attacks/#sthash.yd4Z74KV.dpuf http://eu.greekreporter.com/2015/03/22/germans-protect-greek... Similar to the things I've heard. But there's other stuff for other ethnicities too, the popular press headlines for people from Southern AND eastern europe, the anti-islam protests that saw thousands of people marching, frequent attacks on Jewish establishments, etc. Here's another metric: (...) according to a 2013 study by the Technical University of Berlin, in 14,000 hate-mail letters, emails and faxes sent over 10 years to the Israeli embassy in Berlin and the Central Council of Jews in Germany, Professor Monika Schwarz-Friesel found that 60% were written by educated, middle-class Germans, including professors, lawyers, priests and university and secondary school students. Most, too, were unafraid to give their names and addresses – something she felt few Germans would have done 20 or 30 years ago.

As a german with not a iota of patriotism, aside from a little pride in the social institutions still maintained here, i'm honestly curious: Where do you see nationalism increasing in germany?

themodelplumber 12y ago

Well, I'm just an outsider, but I seem to be seeing things like this more frequently with regards to the larger European countries: http://news.yahoo.com/germany-grapples-rise-anti-foreigner-movement-161137335.html http://news.yahoo.com/germany-grapples-rise-anti-foreigner-m... Edit--video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFmnz4ROEo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFmnz4ROEo

Mithaldu 12y ago
Thank you, it's good to be aware of how things look to outsides. Personally i'm not very worried about things like that because these people do considerable effort to mark themselves to the rest of the country as inconsequential crazy people, by way of adopting styles of fashion (grooming, clothes) in line with current neo nazis. But it makes sense that people from other countries would not be able to pick up on such subtle clues.

anarazel 12y ago

Maybe I'm just oversensitive or not modern enough. But the way cities look these days e.g. around football (soccer) games scares the shit out of me. A black-red-gold sea of flags. In Germany. Brr. Less trivial, but Germany is one of the major forces controlling EU's border policies - and that's a wider form of nationalism and protectionism that pretty directly costs lives. Political forces like AFD and pegida (legida, ...) aren't exactly a sign of receding nationalism either.

idlewords 12y ago
I've always thought of football as a safety valve for European nationalism, particularly in Germany, where there aren't a lot of opportunities to wave the flag and get tribal without creeping everybody out. Having those displays (mostly) demoted from politics to sport has been a huge cultural victory for the older EU members.

PythonicAlpha 12y ago

As a German with also no patriotism: I think, Germany is starting from a very low point here and particularly my generation (post war, but not so much post) is rather uncommitted to the own nation. But, I see some new nationalism breeding particularly in younger generations and in the less intellectual people. Patriotism was and is always a means of finding some meaning in life and something to be proud about. When you look, how people are treated from other nations, than I see very much undercover nationalism. Of course, we are still at a low level, because of our history and because the media does not enforce nationalism like in other countries ... but I think, that we can not take our own attitude and think that everybody has it. I see nationalism rising again in many countries in Europe and in the world today. In the same time, egoism is rising (what partially counteracts to nationalism, partially reinforces patriotism). I think, we see the age of egoism rising today. What it will end up, who knows?

coldtea 11y ago

>Where do you see nationalism increasing in germany? In Germany's behavior within the E.U. and open desire to rule Europe? In their characterizing of Southern countries (even in popular media read by millions, etc) with terms used in the past to describe Jews? (from "lazy" and "pests" to "traitors" and "PIIGS"). In the frequent verbal attacks immigrants from Greece (for example) face in Germany, in shops and public spaces?

Mithaldu 11y ago
Note that i'm not asking because i'm doubting, but because i'm really clueless and wondering what i'm missing. > In the frequent verbal attacks immigrants from Greece (for example) face in Germany, in shops and public spaces? I've lived in Stralsund, Berlin and now Hannover, and i'm extremely surprised that such a thing would happen. Have you seen that personally?
- coldtea 11y ago
  >Have you seen that personally? I've had it told to me by several people that migrated during the crisis, and have read several articles on it on Greek media. Here's an example from an older article on similar issue (but with a happy ending): Elsa Athanasiou, owner of Athos, complained to authorities that she has started receiving letters and phone calls saying things like “Go back to your stinking country!” or “Pigs, go home!” http://eu.greekreporter.com/2015/03/22/germans-protect-greek-restaurant-from-racist-attacks/#sthash.yd4Z74KV.dpuf http://eu.greekreporter.com/2015/03/22/germans-protect-greek... Similar to the things I've heard. But there's other stuff for other ethnicities too, the popular press headlines for people from Southern AND eastern europe, the anti-islam protests that saw thousands of people marching, frequent attacks on Jewish establishments, etc. Here's another metric: (...) according to a 2013 study by the Technical University of Berlin, in 14,000 hate-mail letters, emails and faxes sent over 10 years to the Israeli embassy in Berlin and the Central Council of Jews in Germany, Professor Monika Schwarz-Friesel found that 60% were written by educated, middle-class Germans, including professors, lawyers, priests and university and secondary school students. Most, too, were unafraid to give their names and addresses – something she felt few Germans would have done 20 or 30 years ago.