4 ms·

Interesting to read--best of luck to Aral. Nationalism seems to be spreading all over Europe, so I can understand why "where to go next" is a tough decision.

josh64 12y ago
What are some options including countries outside of Europe? New Zealand used to be an option but I wouldn't consider it an option any more.
- xupybd 12y ago
  Why not New Zealand?
  - rdc12 12y ago
    It is pretty much the exact same story in NZ (surveillance, secret trade deals, privatization, blindly following others into war). I currently want to leave NZ in the next couple of years, less for political reasons and more for wanting to live somewhere culturally different, just to try it. What about Canada, how are they fairing now days?
    - necrodawg 12y ago
      Bill C51...CSIS isn't much better than its NZ equivalent, part of the 5 eyes.
- stevep98 12y ago
  As a french citizen, he has freedom to live and work wherever he wants in the EU without having to deal with getting a visa. I imagine that plays into it somewhat.
Mithaldu 12y ago
As a german with not a iota of patriotism, aside from a little pride in the social institutions still maintained here, i'm honestly curious: Where do you see nationalism increasing in germany?
- themodelplumber 12y ago
  Well, I'm just an outsider, but I seem to be seeing things like this more frequently with regards to the larger European countries: http://news.yahoo.com/germany-grapples-rise-anti-foreigner-movement-161137335.html http://news.yahoo.com/germany-grapples-rise-anti-foreigner-m... Edit--video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFmnz4ROEo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFmnz4ROEo
  - Mithaldu 12y ago
    Thank you, it's good to be aware of how things look to outsides. Personally i'm not very worried about things like that because these people do considerable effort to mark themselves to the rest of the country as inconsequential crazy people, by way of adopting styles of fashion (grooming, clothes) in line with current neo nazis. But it makes sense that people from other countries would not be able to pick up on such subtle clues.
- anarazel 12y ago
  Maybe I'm just oversensitive or not modern enough. But the way cities look these days e.g. around football (soccer) games scares the shit out of me. A black-red-gold sea of flags. In Germany. Brr. Less trivial, but Germany is one of the major forces controlling EU's border policies - and that's a wider form of nationalism and protectionism that pretty directly costs lives. Political forces like AFD and pegida (legida, ...) aren't exactly a sign of receding nationalism either.
  - idlewords 12y ago
    I've always thought of football as a safety valve for European nationalism, particularly in Germany, where there aren't a lot of opportunities to wave the flag and get tribal without creeping everybody out. Having those displays (mostly) demoted from politics to sport has been a huge cultural victory for the older EU members.
- PythonicAlpha 12y ago
  As a German with also no patriotism: I think, Germany is starting from a very low point here and particularly my generation (post war, but not so much post) is rather uncommitted to the own nation. But, I see some new nationalism breeding particularly in younger generations and in the less intellectual people. Patriotism was and is always a means of finding some meaning in life and something to be proud about. When you look, how people are treated from other nations, than I see very much undercover nationalism. Of course, we are still at a low level, because of our history and because the media does not enforce nationalism like in other countries ... but I think, that we can not take our own attitude and think that everybody has it. I see nationalism rising again in many countries in Europe and in the world today. In the same time, egoism is rising (what partially counteracts to nationalism, partially reinforces patriotism). I think, we see the age of egoism rising today. What it will end up, who knows?

josh64 12y ago

What are some options including countries outside of Europe? New Zealand used to be an option but I wouldn't consider it an option any more.

xupybd 12y ago
Why not New Zealand?
- rdc12 12y ago
  It is pretty much the exact same story in NZ (surveillance, secret trade deals, privatization, blindly following others into war). I currently want to leave NZ in the next couple of years, less for political reasons and more for wanting to live somewhere culturally different, just to try it. What about Canada, how are they fairing now days?
  - necrodawg 12y ago
    Bill C51...CSIS isn't much better than its NZ equivalent, part of the 5 eyes.
stevep98 12y ago
As a french citizen, he has freedom to live and work wherever he wants in the EU without having to deal with getting a visa. I imagine that plays into it somewhat.

Mithaldu 12y ago

As a german with not a iota of patriotism, aside from a little pride in the social institutions still maintained here, i'm honestly curious: Where do you see nationalism increasing in germany?

themodelplumber 12y ago
Well, I'm just an outsider, but I seem to be seeing things like this more frequently with regards to the larger European countries: http://news.yahoo.com/germany-grapples-rise-anti-foreigner-movement-161137335.html http://news.yahoo.com/germany-grapples-rise-anti-foreigner-m... Edit--video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFmnz4ROEo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFmnz4ROEo
- Mithaldu 12y ago
  Thank you, it's good to be aware of how things look to outsides. Personally i'm not very worried about things like that because these people do considerable effort to mark themselves to the rest of the country as inconsequential crazy people, by way of adopting styles of fashion (grooming, clothes) in line with current neo nazis. But it makes sense that people from other countries would not be able to pick up on such subtle clues.
anarazel 12y ago
Maybe I'm just oversensitive or not modern enough. But the way cities look these days e.g. around football (soccer) games scares the shit out of me. A black-red-gold sea of flags. In Germany. Brr. Less trivial, but Germany is one of the major forces controlling EU's border policies - and that's a wider form of nationalism and protectionism that pretty directly costs lives. Political forces like AFD and pegida (legida, ...) aren't exactly a sign of receding nationalism either.
- idlewords 12y ago
  I've always thought of football as a safety valve for European nationalism, particularly in Germany, where there aren't a lot of opportunities to wave the flag and get tribal without creeping everybody out. Having those displays (mostly) demoted from politics to sport has been a huge cultural victory for the older EU members.
PythonicAlpha 12y ago
As a German with also no patriotism: I think, Germany is starting from a very low point here and particularly my generation (post war, but not so much post) is rather uncommitted to the own nation. But, I see some new nationalism breeding particularly in younger generations and in the less intellectual people. Patriotism was and is always a means of finding some meaning in life and something to be proud about. When you look, how people are treated from other nations, than I see very much undercover nationalism. Of course, we are still at a low level, because of our history and because the media does not enforce nationalism like in other countries ... but I think, that we can not take our own attitude and think that everybody has it. I see nationalism rising again in many countries in Europe and in the world today. In the same time, egoism is rising (what partially counteracts to nationalism, partially reinforces patriotism). I think, we see the age of egoism rising today. What it will end up, who knows?