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For balance: In the past eight months, four of the 48 self-driving cars licensed in California were involved in accidents. Three were Lexus SUVs from Google. h

For balance: In the past eight months, four of the 48 self-driving cars licensed in California were involved in accidents. Three were Lexus SUVs from Google. http://www.startribune.com/ap-exclusive-self-driving-cars-getting-dinged-in-california/303248161/ http://www.startribune.com/ap-exclusive-self-driving-cars-ge... This does not assign blame. It is an observation.

ender7 11y ago
From your own link: "Google and Delphi said their cars were not at fault in any accidents, which the companies said were minor."
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Also from article this thread is tied to: > If you spend enough time on the road, accidents will happen whether you’re in a car or a self-driving car. Over the 6 years since we started the project, we’ve been involved in 11 minor accidents (light damage, no injuries) during those 1.7 million miles of autonomous and manual driving with our safety drivers behind the wheel, and not once was the self-driving car the cause of the accident.
  - afarrell 11y ago
    I'm curious many of these miles were on snow and ice.
    - ams6110 11y ago
      In Mountain View? I'm not from around there but I'd guess zero?
      - tikhonj 11y ago
        I'm pretty sure I've seen Google's car being tested up in Tahoe, so the answer is some. (The areas around Tahoe's ski resorts get quite a lot of snow and ice too, so it's certainly a good place for this sort of testing.)
- emptybits 11y ago
  To not be legally "at fault" is important, particularly for a company with liability and public image at stake. I genuinely look forward to future stats that will tell us self-driven cars have a much lower likelihood of even being involved in accidents, independent of fault. To me, that level of defensiveness and net safety is also a measure of progress. As an example: Let's say a particular self-driven car has a low threshold to "stomp on the brakes, hard" at the slightest sign of danger. Will this keep it from accumulating "at fault" accidents? Probably. But can that behaviour effectively contribute to causing accidents that it's not "at fault" for (being rear-ended)? Probably. Safer roads? Difficult to say.
  - danielweber 11y ago
    It seems that the Google car does avoid that. "we’ve been hit from behind seven times, mainly at traffic lights but also on the freeway" If you are stopped at a red light with a car in front of you, sitting there and taking a collision from behind can be the best course of action, depending on the trailing car's speed.
Squarel 11y ago
For balance, the property only damage rate that I could find per 100 million vehicle miles for passenger cars was 145, so, 1.45 per million vehicle miles. Trends table 11 in the link http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety/data-and-statistics/large-truck-and-bus-crash-facts-2012 http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety/data-and-statistics/large-tr... Now, many PDO incidents go unreported, but, medium does not offer a number for comparison, so, when you see the headline "11 accidents in 1.7m miles" you have no reference to whether this is high or low.
- Tenhundfeld 11y ago
  Good find. The text of the DOT website is a little vague, but I think you're right that the 1.45 per 1M number is only from police reports. Data for GES [General Estimates System] come from a nationally representative sample of police reported motor vehicle crashes of all types, from minor to fatal. ... Although various sources suggest that about half the motor vehicle crashes in the country are not reported to the police, the majority of these unreported crashes involve only minor property damage and no significant personal injury. I guess that's saying the actual number should be about double, so ~3 per 1M. I'm also wondering if any private operators of fleets publish stats. For example, does FedEx or UPS publish accident rates? I know those numbers would also be skewed, larger vehicles, more frequent stops, etc. But it could be another data point.
jws 11y ago
According to the companies involved, none of the accidents were the fault of the self driving car. The Delphi car was stopped at a light, in manual driving mode, when another vehicle lost control, crossed a median, and hit the delphi car. I haven't seen a statement from Google other than that the accidents were minor and the fault of the other vehicles. I think today's news article flurry might better be titled: Humans run into self driving cars about as often as human driven ones, meanwhile self driving cars do not run into other vehicles.
jonknee 11y ago
For more balance, they have been driven a ridiculous number of miles more than the average car so saying "4 of 48" got ran into (since none were the fault of the self-driving car!) is intentionally misleading.

ender7 11y ago

From your own link: "Google and Delphi said their cars were not at fault in any accidents, which the companies said were minor."

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Also from article this thread is tied to: > If you spend enough time on the road, accidents will happen whether you’re in a car or a self-driving car. Over the 6 years since we started the project, we’ve been involved in 11 minor accidents (light damage, no injuries) during those 1.7 million miles of autonomous and manual driving with our safety drivers behind the wheel, and not once was the self-driving car the cause of the accident.
- afarrell 11y ago
  I'm curious many of these miles were on snow and ice.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    In Mountain View? I'm not from around there but I'd guess zero?
    - tikhonj 11y ago
      I'm pretty sure I've seen Google's car being tested up in Tahoe, so the answer is some. (The areas around Tahoe's ski resorts get quite a lot of snow and ice too, so it's certainly a good place for this sort of testing.)
emptybits 11y ago
To not be legally "at fault" is important, particularly for a company with liability and public image at stake. I genuinely look forward to future stats that will tell us self-driven cars have a much lower likelihood of even being involved in accidents, independent of fault. To me, that level of defensiveness and net safety is also a measure of progress. As an example: Let's say a particular self-driven car has a low threshold to "stomp on the brakes, hard" at the slightest sign of danger. Will this keep it from accumulating "at fault" accidents? Probably. But can that behaviour effectively contribute to causing accidents that it's not "at fault" for (being rear-ended)? Probably. Safer roads? Difficult to say.
- danielweber 11y ago
  It seems that the Google car does avoid that. "we’ve been hit from behind seven times, mainly at traffic lights but also on the freeway" If you are stopped at a red light with a car in front of you, sitting there and taking a collision from behind can be the best course of action, depending on the trailing car's speed.

Squarel 11y ago

For balance, the property only damage rate that I could find per 100 million vehicle miles for passenger cars was 145, so, 1.45 per million vehicle miles. Trends table 11 in the link http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety/data-and-statistics/large-truck-and-bus-crash-facts-2012 http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety/data-and-statistics/large-tr... Now, many PDO incidents go unreported, but, medium does not offer a number for comparison, so, when you see the headline "11 accidents in 1.7m miles" you have no reference to whether this is high or low.

Tenhundfeld 11y ago
Good find. The text of the DOT website is a little vague, but I think you're right that the 1.45 per 1M number is only from police reports. Data for GES [General Estimates System] come from a nationally representative sample of police reported motor vehicle crashes of all types, from minor to fatal. ... Although various sources suggest that about half the motor vehicle crashes in the country are not reported to the police, the majority of these unreported crashes involve only minor property damage and no significant personal injury. I guess that's saying the actual number should be about double, so ~3 per 1M. I'm also wondering if any private operators of fleets publish stats. For example, does FedEx or UPS publish accident rates? I know those numbers would also be skewed, larger vehicles, more frequent stops, etc. But it could be another data point.

jws 11y ago

According to the companies involved, none of the accidents were the fault of the self driving car. The Delphi car was stopped at a light, in manual driving mode, when another vehicle lost control, crossed a median, and hit the delphi car. I haven't seen a statement from Google other than that the accidents were minor and the fault of the other vehicles. I think today's news article flurry might better be titled: Humans run into self driving cars about as often as human driven ones, meanwhile self driving cars do not run into other vehicles.

jonknee 11y ago

For more balance, they have been driven a ridiculous number of miles more than the average car so saying "4 of 48" got ran into (since none were the fault of the self-driving car!) is intentionally misleading.