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If this statement is true and in the proper context (who knows), this all but kills my respect for Musk. It basically puts him at the same level as Jobs, Elliso

If this statement is true and in the proper context (who knows), this all but kills my respect for Musk. It basically puts him at the same level as Jobs, Ellison and others who are just egotistical, sociopathic assholes. Look, Musk /is/ out to change the world. His employees might not be, at least to the degree and level as he is. And, if they are, they'll likely not be remembered along with Musk. There is often only one, maybe two names attached to great achievements. If I'm an employee at a company like that (and I have been, and I have killed myself with long hours making someone else rich when I was young and dumb, before I realized what it was all about), I would do my job very, very well and make sure I have the balance in life /I/ want. You don't want me to see the birth of my child? Sorry, fuck off. It's my time, my life, my family, my kid. And we aren't talking about a tee-ball game. This is the BIRTH. We aren't talking about kindergarten parent-teacher conferences. This is the birth, where you support your wife and see your child for the first time. And, sadly, Musk probably doesn't realize because he is so wrapped up in his own world, but having a child IS changing the world for a few folks. But, ya know, sociopaths don't care about other people, just themselves. I'm continually saddened that we put people on pedestals who so clearly aren't deserving of it. Musk is just another example of someone who /really/ is out for theirs and want to get it any way possible. I think we all thought, or maybe hoped, he was different. I don't know that he is.

mikeash 11y ago
I'm mostly just happy that we've largely figured out how to channel driven sociopaths into relatively productive pursuits like building rockets (and, yes, less productive things like finance) instead of conquering, pillaging, and salting the earth.
- fingerprinter 11y ago
  This is easily the best 'glass half full' statement on corporate sociopaths I've ever seen. Thank you!
  - mikeash 11y ago
    Heh, you're welcome! I truly do think that one of the keys of modern civilization is that we've figured out a system where the best way to get ahead is to give people something they want, rather than by killing and stealing. These people might be the ones tossing books into the Tigris until it runs black with ink, but instead they're "just" abusing people because of their family obligations, bending labor laws, etc. Not to defend that sort of behavior in any way, but it's better!
TeMPOraL 11y ago
> And, sadly, Musk probably doesn't realize because he is so wrapped up in his own world, but having a child IS changing the world for a few folks. But, ya know, sociopaths don't care about other people, just themselves. I'm partial about this. The reply (assuming it's true, context, etc.) seemed very harsh and inconsiderate, and struck me as not his style (but I never worked for him so I don't know how he is day-to-day). But the celebration of family I see in these comments is weird for me as well. Ok, so having a child is changing the world for a few folks. But the work done at Tesla and SpaceX will quite likely change the world for better for hundreds of millions or even billions of people. It's not the typical SV "change the world" = "build a mobile social spyware app", it's actually fixing some of the biggest problems humanity faces. Call me sociopath, but were I working for SpaceX or Tesla on some critical components, I probably wouldn't consider my own family more important than this work. Same if I was working for cutting-edge cure-cancer stuff. There are more important things than myself and my personal life.
- thelambentonion 11y ago
  I think the main issue here, as has been pointed out by other commenters, is that choice between a personal life and between work even at companies like SpaceX and Tesla is a false dichotomy. There should be no person who is so singularly important to a task that s/he cannot afford to be away without notice for even a day.[0] Dressing it up by saying you're changing the world is just another form of emotional manipulation. [0] Anecdotal, but I work in the space industry. People taking off without prior notice for emergencies happens and doesn't elicit this type of response.
mindcrime 11y ago
I'm continually saddened that we put people on pedestals who so clearly aren't deserving of it. Musk is just another example of someone who /really/ is out for theirs and want to get it any way possible. I think we all thought, or maybe hoped, he was different. I don't know that he is. The thing is, there's nothing wrong with being obsessive, or even sociopathic to a point. Elon wants what he wants and he has a right to go after it with all his might. And to be honest, I expect he really is interested in making the world a better place in the general sense. Nothing about him gives off a "Bondian Supervillian" vibe or anything. I just think it's a mistake for him to assume that anyone else will necessarily share his level of dedication and passion, now matter how important his initiative is to him personally. And when you start bossing people around, who would otherwise be your supporters, and saying stuff like this, I expect the principle consequence isn't "more commitment" form those people (not over the long-term anyway) but an increased desire on their part to tell you to fuck off, while they go find another outlet to try and change the world.

mikeash 11y ago

I'm mostly just happy that we've largely figured out how to channel driven sociopaths into relatively productive pursuits like building rockets (and, yes, less productive things like finance) instead of conquering, pillaging, and salting the earth.

fingerprinter 11y ago
This is easily the best 'glass half full' statement on corporate sociopaths I've ever seen. Thank you!
- mikeash 11y ago
  Heh, you're welcome! I truly do think that one of the keys of modern civilization is that we've figured out a system where the best way to get ahead is to give people something they want, rather than by killing and stealing. These people might be the ones tossing books into the Tigris until it runs black with ink, but instead they're "just" abusing people because of their family obligations, bending labor laws, etc. Not to defend that sort of behavior in any way, but it's better!

TeMPOraL 11y ago

> And, sadly, Musk probably doesn't realize because he is so wrapped up in his own world, but having a child IS changing the world for a few folks. But, ya know, sociopaths don't care about other people, just themselves. I'm partial about this. The reply (assuming it's true, context, etc.) seemed very harsh and inconsiderate, and struck me as not his style (but I never worked for him so I don't know how he is day-to-day). But the celebration of family I see in these comments is weird for me as well. Ok, so having a child is changing the world for a few folks. But the work done at Tesla and SpaceX will quite likely change the world for better for hundreds of millions or even billions of people. It's not the typical SV "change the world" = "build a mobile social spyware app", it's actually fixing some of the biggest problems humanity faces. Call me sociopath, but were I working for SpaceX or Tesla on some critical components, I probably wouldn't consider my own family more important than this work. Same if I was working for cutting-edge cure-cancer stuff. There are more important things than myself and my personal life.

thelambentonion 11y ago
I think the main issue here, as has been pointed out by other commenters, is that choice between a personal life and between work even at companies like SpaceX and Tesla is a false dichotomy. There should be no person who is so singularly important to a task that s/he cannot afford to be away without notice for even a day.[0] Dressing it up by saying you're changing the world is just another form of emotional manipulation. [0] Anecdotal, but I work in the space industry. People taking off without prior notice for emergencies happens and doesn't elicit this type of response.

mindcrime 11y ago

I'm continually saddened that we put people on pedestals who so clearly aren't deserving of it. Musk is just another example of someone who /really/ is out for theirs and want to get it any way possible. I think we all thought, or maybe hoped, he was different. I don't know that he is. The thing is, there's nothing wrong with being obsessive, or even sociopathic to a point. Elon wants what he wants and he has a right to go after it with all his might. And to be honest, I expect he really is interested in making the world a better place in the general sense. Nothing about him gives off a "Bondian Supervillian" vibe or anything. I just think it's a mistake for him to assume that anyone else will necessarily share his level of dedication and passion, now matter how important his initiative is to him personally. And when you start bossing people around, who would otherwise be your supporters, and saying stuff like this, I expect the principle consequence isn't "more commitment" form those people (not over the long-term anyway) but an increased desire on their part to tell you to fuck off, while they go find another outlet to try and change the world.