4 ms·

All the negative press and comments about this miss the point. The guy has very specific, very ambitious goals that he has a track record of achieving. He prior

All the negative press and comments about this miss the point. The guy has very specific, very ambitious goals that he has a track record of achieving. He prioritizes those literally above everything and expects the same from key employees. Working at Tesla, which has already done a ton to change the entire car industry is a huge privilege, and no one's making you do it. If you can get a job there, you can get a job elsewhere, but if you do want to have your job there and help reshape the world behind someone with a track record like Elon Musk's, yeah, you're going to have to play by his rules. If other stuff is more important to you, go work at like 95% of other companies.

WDCDev 11y ago
That's ridiculous. No one's commitment to any organization or cause should be questioned if they choose to see their child born vs. coming into work.
- elmerland 11y ago
  Completely agree! Nobody should be shamed because he/she prioritizes things differently. As long as people accomplish the job agreed upon, it should not matter that some people are not OK with never seeing their family.
- brianpgordon 11y ago
  I think it's reasonable to expect an astronaut to report to work on the day of a launch regardless of personal circumstances. Also a soldier can't go AWOL in the middle of a mission to see his family. Same with a surgeon in the middle of a surgery. Those are pretty much the only cases I can think of. I get the sense that, amusingly, Elon Musk sees himself and his company as that important.
AceJohnny2 11y ago
I am reminded of this famous Stallman incident, where he basically scorns at another developer for having a baby: http://edward.oconnor.cx/2005/04/rms http://edward.oconnor.cx/2005/04/rms
- fatman 11y ago
  Wow. It's no surprise that rms lacks empathy or social grace, but I'm kind of shocked one man's availability could single-handedly delay a release of a project like emacs. What if the poor chap had got hit by a bus?
  - AceJohnny2 11y ago
    I suspect that in this case it was easier to wait for the person to be available rather than transitioning to someone else. BTW, since then Emacs development has been handed over to other folk and development has really picked up pace, including being (finally!) hosted in Git.
- kevinskii 11y ago
  That email chain contains one of my favorite quotes: "It doesn’t take special talents to reproduce—even plants can do it. On the other hand, contributing to a program like Emacs takes real skill. That is really something to be proud of." --RMS (As a parent without any special talents, I am evidence supporting his claim.)
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Which reminds me of this RMS classic: http://www.art.net/Studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-doctor.html http://www.art.net/Studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-d... I can't say I disagree with RMS. Having a child is really nothing special. Every other person on the planet does that. And while I respect that for many parents, having their own kid is the best moment of their lives, I think RMS is right to point out that except said parents, no one else cares. It's a huge problem on social media now; one of the most annoying things is people continuously spamming everyone with photos of their newborns.
  - cmsj 11y ago
    You might not care, RMS might not care, but please don't assume that "no one else cares". I don't know you, and I don't know RMS, but he doesn't seem like the most emotionally intelligent person, perhaps you aren't either. Nothing wrong with that, you are who you are. Some people are capable of responding very strongly to the emotions of others. I'm not saying they're better than you, just that they're different to you, and that they exist :)
notjustanymike 11y ago
If you consider the birth of a child "other stuff" less important that your job your priorities as a parent are already seriously fucked.
MrZongle2 11y ago
"All the negative press and comments about this miss the point." What, that working at Tesla is more important than being at the birth of your child, to both see them come into the world and support the mother during a physically and emotionally trying event? Because that is the alleged point. And the criticism is spot-on.
- AstroChimpHam 11y ago
  No, it's not. It's not that working at Tesla is more important for everyone. It's that if you do work at Tesla in that employee's role (which was key because he's getting direct emails from Elon Musk), then that's a sacrifice you need to make. For me, I'd much rather witness my child's birth, which is why I wouldn't take a job where I might have to miss that. The solution is not to take the job, not to criticize a guy literally changing the world for his process.
fsloth 11y ago
Playing by a specific, abnormal ruleset or not playing at all sounds more like a cult and a recipe for fatal groupthink than a healthy company culture. But hey, I'm not saying cults can't achieve great things. It's just that they are not usually that healthy for most participants.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  True, but this "cult" says up-front that it cares about the end-goal and not profits, and is inviting people who are willing to think alike. I've noticed however that as both SpaceX and Tesla gain media exposure, there's an influx of people who want to join only to get a good line on their resume. These companies are definitely not healthy for such participants.
butterfi 11y ago
Working at Tesla is not a huge privilege. It's a job, maybe even a great one, but it doesn't make you a better person, it doesn't even guarantee that you'll be employable after working there. Having worked for a couple of very popular places, I realized pretty quickly its a job. You know what these places have in common? You're an employee, which means they can and will cut you loose when it suits them. "Reshaping the World" seems to be a popular refrain that gets overused by tech companies, and while Tesla may be more accurate then most, it's still hubris. Spend time with your real family.
- AstroChimpHam 11y ago
  So, don't work there. We're talking about really smart people that can get jobs wherever else if they don't like the culture at Tesla. All the replies on my comment share the same issue that for them seeing the birth of their child is more important than being a part of Tesla. That's fine. Don't work at Tesla. That's why I wouldn't work there either. I wouldn't work in the army either, which has the same setbacks when you're on a deployment. Elon Musk consistently delivers on actually changing the world, so yeah, he's allowed to have rules to work with him. Also, to the people that downvoted: it's really disheartening to see you'd rather downvote out of existence than have a dialogue with a contrasting opinion. Enjoy your echo chamber.
  - ConfuciusSay 11y ago
    Except that nobody's arguing that you have to work at Tesla, they're pointing out that Elon Musk is a dick. Just as people can choose who to work for, people can also choose to share information on which employer is a dick.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > Just as people can choose who to work for, people can also choose to share information on which employer is a dick. In fact, being able to the latter is an important part of making the former an informed choice.
gclaramunt 11y ago
Unless the employee has the same reward ($$$) you can't expect the same level of commitment. Witnessing the beginning of a life altering project is not even comparable to help somebody else build a car. What would you think of a founder that misses the launch of his product?

WDCDev 11y ago

That's ridiculous. No one's commitment to any organization or cause should be questioned if they choose to see their child born vs. coming into work.

elmerland 11y ago
Completely agree! Nobody should be shamed because he/she prioritizes things differently. As long as people accomplish the job agreed upon, it should not matter that some people are not OK with never seeing their family.
brianpgordon 11y ago
I think it's reasonable to expect an astronaut to report to work on the day of a launch regardless of personal circumstances. Also a soldier can't go AWOL in the middle of a mission to see his family. Same with a surgeon in the middle of a surgery. Those are pretty much the only cases I can think of. I get the sense that, amusingly, Elon Musk sees himself and his company as that important.

AceJohnny2 11y ago

I am reminded of this famous Stallman incident, where he basically scorns at another developer for having a baby: http://edward.oconnor.cx/2005/04/rms http://edward.oconnor.cx/2005/04/rms

fatman 11y ago
Wow. It's no surprise that rms lacks empathy or social grace, but I'm kind of shocked one man's availability could single-handedly delay a release of a project like emacs. What if the poor chap had got hit by a bus?
- AceJohnny2 11y ago
  I suspect that in this case it was easier to wait for the person to be available rather than transitioning to someone else. BTW, since then Emacs development has been handed over to other folk and development has really picked up pace, including being (finally!) hosted in Git.
kevinskii 11y ago
That email chain contains one of my favorite quotes: "It doesn’t take special talents to reproduce—even plants can do it. On the other hand, contributing to a program like Emacs takes real skill. That is really something to be proud of." --RMS (As a parent without any special talents, I am evidence supporting his claim.)
TeMPOraL 11y ago
Which reminds me of this RMS classic: http://www.art.net/Studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-doctor.html http://www.art.net/Studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-d... I can't say I disagree with RMS. Having a child is really nothing special. Every other person on the planet does that. And while I respect that for many parents, having their own kid is the best moment of their lives, I think RMS is right to point out that except said parents, no one else cares. It's a huge problem on social media now; one of the most annoying things is people continuously spamming everyone with photos of their newborns.
- cmsj 11y ago
  You might not care, RMS might not care, but please don't assume that "no one else cares". I don't know you, and I don't know RMS, but he doesn't seem like the most emotionally intelligent person, perhaps you aren't either. Nothing wrong with that, you are who you are. Some people are capable of responding very strongly to the emotions of others. I'm not saying they're better than you, just that they're different to you, and that they exist :)

notjustanymike 11y ago

If you consider the birth of a child "other stuff" less important that your job your priorities as a parent are already seriously fucked.

MrZongle2 11y ago

"All the negative press and comments about this miss the point." What, that working at Tesla is more important than being at the birth of your child, to both see them come into the world and support the mother during a physically and emotionally trying event? Because that is the alleged point. And the criticism is spot-on.

AstroChimpHam 11y ago
No, it's not. It's not that working at Tesla is more important for everyone. It's that if you do work at Tesla in that employee's role (which was key because he's getting direct emails from Elon Musk), then that's a sacrifice you need to make. For me, I'd much rather witness my child's birth, which is why I wouldn't take a job where I might have to miss that. The solution is not to take the job, not to criticize a guy literally changing the world for his process.

fsloth 11y ago

Playing by a specific, abnormal ruleset or not playing at all sounds more like a cult and a recipe for fatal groupthink than a healthy company culture. But hey, I'm not saying cults can't achieve great things. It's just that they are not usually that healthy for most participants.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
True, but this "cult" says up-front that it cares about the end-goal and not profits, and is inviting people who are willing to think alike. I've noticed however that as both SpaceX and Tesla gain media exposure, there's an influx of people who want to join only to get a good line on their resume. These companies are definitely not healthy for such participants.

butterfi 11y ago

Working at Tesla is not a huge privilege. It's a job, maybe even a great one, but it doesn't make you a better person, it doesn't even guarantee that you'll be employable after working there. Having worked for a couple of very popular places, I realized pretty quickly its a job. You know what these places have in common? You're an employee, which means they can and will cut you loose when it suits them. "Reshaping the World" seems to be a popular refrain that gets overused by tech companies, and while Tesla may be more accurate then most, it's still hubris. Spend time with your real family.

AstroChimpHam 11y ago
So, don't work there. We're talking about really smart people that can get jobs wherever else if they don't like the culture at Tesla. All the replies on my comment share the same issue that for them seeing the birth of their child is more important than being a part of Tesla. That's fine. Don't work at Tesla. That's why I wouldn't work there either. I wouldn't work in the army either, which has the same setbacks when you're on a deployment. Elon Musk consistently delivers on actually changing the world, so yeah, he's allowed to have rules to work with him. Also, to the people that downvoted: it's really disheartening to see you'd rather downvote out of existence than have a dialogue with a contrasting opinion. Enjoy your echo chamber.
- ConfuciusSay 11y ago
  Except that nobody's arguing that you have to work at Tesla, they're pointing out that Elon Musk is a dick. Just as people can choose who to work for, people can also choose to share information on which employer is a dick.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > Just as people can choose who to work for, people can also choose to share information on which employer is a dick. In fact, being able to the latter is an important part of making the former an informed choice.

gclaramunt 11y ago

Unless the employee has the same reward ($$$) you can't expect the same level of commitment. Witnessing the beginning of a life altering project is not even comparable to help somebody else build a car. What would you think of a founder that misses the launch of his product?