4 ms·

>"It seems like Silicon Valley is full of people who love espousing their noble ideas but got rich via (as Thiel admits) at best socially neutral things like Fa

by zo1 12y ago

>"It seems like Silicon Valley is full of people who love espousing their noble ideas but got rich via (as Thiel admits) at best socially neutral things like Facebook and Paypal." What's wrong with that? If Thiel is a Libertarian (haven't looked it up, not that it matters), then supporting and making money off-of socially "neutral" things such as Facebook and Paypal seems like a very good representation of the things Libertarians believe in. Namely, freedom from violent coercion in all forms, and the voluntary trade and association between free individuals. Calling it "Neutral" is also quite a loaded term, to be honest. You've already created and started projecting some sort of internal (and probably shared-with-others) scale of social good. And then you apply it to something completely voluntary and non-violent, as if to degrade from what it actually represents.

s73v3r 12y ago
"freedom from violent coercion" The problem with that is, they're just fine with every other form of coercion.
- dnautics 12y ago
  The opposing viewpoint essentially boils down to "use violent coercion to stop non-violent coercion" which is not only ideologically inconsistent, but an escalation.
- psychometry 12y ago
  Namely, the inevitable coercion by private companies left completely unchecked to amass power, money, and influence.
  - MCRed 12y ago
    Companies have to keep everyone happy-- employees so they won't work elsewhere, shareholders so they won't sell the stock, customers so they won't shop elsewhere and the government so they won't be prosecuted. Yet we see a major political movement with constant scare stories about the evils of corporations. Meanwhile, the US government spends $3 Trillion a year, collects it all via violence (eg: taxation or inflation which is a non-consensual devaluing of the dollar) and is literally using it to spy on people illegally, and drop hellfire missiles on innocent teenagers.... ... yet all I hear is how we need more of this government thing and less of those evil, scary, companies that have to keep everybody happy in order to stay in business. It boggles my mind. Personally, I have been threatened with violence on a couple of occasions and robbed by the government every year since I became an adult... and only rarely does a company do something wrong/stupid, and when they do the scale doesn't even begin to compare. But literally what you say is wrong. It's not "coercion" to offer a better product. To claim companies are "unchecked" is wrong as well, they are checked by the need to keep everyone happy. Government doesn't even run fair elections!
    - psychometry 12y ago
      I find the rhetoric of frothing-at-the-mouth libertarians like you absolutely hilarious. I'm imagining IRS agents wearing pocket protectors going around mugging people at gunpoint to collect taxes. You certainly have an odd definition of what constitutes "violence" and "robbery". You consent to being taxed merely by continuing to live in this country and use government services. If you don't like it, then go live on a boat in international waters and leave the rest of us to enjoy an actual society. And good riddance.
      - dnautics 12y ago
        I'd like to see you go to inner city baltimore and say to someone, You consent to police activity merely by continuing to live in this country and use government services. If you don't like it, then go live on a boat in international waters and leave the rest of us to enjoy an actual society. And good riddance.
        s73v3r 12y ago
        I'd like to see you say something even remotely relevant to the topic at hand, instead of constructing straw men.
    - s73v3r 12y ago
      I have found absolutely nothing true in your statement. The idea that companies have to keep people happy is laughable when you consider there are companies like AT&T and Comcast making huge amounts of money, companies like Hobby Lobby going to court to protect their "rights" to screw employees, and so many companies that treat employees like cattle. And I stopped taking you seriously when you started talking about taxes and violence. It's the dumbest God damned thing out there in libertarian rhetoric.
- zo1 12y ago
  >"The problem with that is, they're just fine with every other form of coercion." Care to paste an example of what you mean by that?

by zo1 12y ago

s73v3r 12y ago

"freedom from violent coercion" The problem with that is, they're just fine with every other form of coercion.

dnautics 12y ago
The opposing viewpoint essentially boils down to "use violent coercion to stop non-violent coercion" which is not only ideologically inconsistent, but an escalation.
psychometry 12y ago
Namely, the inevitable coercion by private companies left completely unchecked to amass power, money, and influence.
- MCRed 12y ago
  Companies have to keep everyone happy-- employees so they won't work elsewhere, shareholders so they won't sell the stock, customers so they won't shop elsewhere and the government so they won't be prosecuted. Yet we see a major political movement with constant scare stories about the evils of corporations. Meanwhile, the US government spends $3 Trillion a year, collects it all via violence (eg: taxation or inflation which is a non-consensual devaluing of the dollar) and is literally using it to spy on people illegally, and drop hellfire missiles on innocent teenagers.... ... yet all I hear is how we need more of this government thing and less of those evil, scary, companies that have to keep everybody happy in order to stay in business. It boggles my mind. Personally, I have been threatened with violence on a couple of occasions and robbed by the government every year since I became an adult... and only rarely does a company do something wrong/stupid, and when they do the scale doesn't even begin to compare. But literally what you say is wrong. It's not "coercion" to offer a better product. To claim companies are "unchecked" is wrong as well, they are checked by the need to keep everyone happy. Government doesn't even run fair elections!
  - psychometry 12y ago
    I find the rhetoric of frothing-at-the-mouth libertarians like you absolutely hilarious. I'm imagining IRS agents wearing pocket protectors going around mugging people at gunpoint to collect taxes. You certainly have an odd definition of what constitutes "violence" and "robbery". You consent to being taxed merely by continuing to live in this country and use government services. If you don't like it, then go live on a boat in international waters and leave the rest of us to enjoy an actual society. And good riddance.
    - dnautics 12y ago
      I'd like to see you go to inner city baltimore and say to someone, You consent to police activity merely by continuing to live in this country and use government services. If you don't like it, then go live on a boat in international waters and leave the rest of us to enjoy an actual society. And good riddance.
      - s73v3r 12y ago
        I'd like to see you say something even remotely relevant to the topic at hand, instead of constructing straw men.
  - s73v3r 12y ago
    I have found absolutely nothing true in your statement. The idea that companies have to keep people happy is laughable when you consider there are companies like AT&T and Comcast making huge amounts of money, companies like Hobby Lobby going to court to protect their "rights" to screw employees, and so many companies that treat employees like cattle. And I stopped taking you seriously when you started talking about taxes and violence. It's the dumbest God damned thing out there in libertarian rhetoric.
zo1 12y ago
>"The problem with that is, they're just fine with every other form of coercion." Care to paste an example of what you mean by that?