9 ms·

Windows 10 Design: Getting the balance right

80 points by mpalme 11y ago

hubridnoxx 11y ago
Big fan of all caps bold headers.
joshuapants 11y ago
Here's a bit of analysis by Paul Thurrot on this piece: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/3226/microsoft-explains-the-windows-10-design-changes https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/3226/microsoft-e...
jszymborski 11y ago
"People aren't squares"... ergo they're circles?
- pavlov 11y ago
  If you ask a 4-year-old to draw a head, it's likely that the base shape is a circle.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Head, people.
wahsd 11y ago
I'm going to lose it if Win10 does not integrate automatic time zone adjustment like OSX. What, does no one at MS mind having to manually change the time zone with 7 clicks every time they travel? Why is it not just two clicks to change the time zone at least? Maybe something like right-click time, select from list of preset "favorite" time zones. That doesn't even requite a time network, let alone being able to read time stamps on surrounding wireless networks. Or there is no Outlook global search or no message threading. That's not new or challenging stuff, Microsoft. WTF? Can you think of anything else basic that is annoying as heck about Windows?
- tdicola 11y ago
  > Can you think of anything else basic that is annoying as heck about Windows? That it took 10 versions to finally get a resizeable command line terminal that you can copy and paste text within.
  - stinos 11y ago
    To be fair: it could be resized (though in an extremely non-user friendly way) and copy/paste has been possible since a long time (no idea since which version, and again, it wasn't particularly user-friendly at all)
    - grimman 11y ago
      Copy+paste has been possible at least since Win2k. But yes, in a very user-unfriendly manner.
  - AdeptusAquinas 11y ago
    This. It was just a small thing, that every now and then made life a little more difficult than it needed to be when you tried to paste something and got ~V :D
  - fl0wenol 11y ago
    The console was broken for a long time primarily to make it possible to do full-screen VGA text modes for NTVDM-requiring apps. Enabling either or both required elevated hardware privileges so they shoved the whole rendering thing into CSRSS and it gave us the shatter attack and (later) no cut/paste as thanks. I think we're paying for a mistake made upon the alter of backwards compatibility back when asking someone to use virtualization made you sound like a nut (and back before Microsoft had Hyper-V to offer as an alternative to customers who couldn't or wouldn't budge).
    - joshuapants 11y ago
      > I think we're paying for a mistake made upon the alter of backwards compatibility There's a book called The Old New Thing (I think I heard about it here on HN, haven't had a chance to get it yet) that discusses a lot of quirks that Windows has and how they came about. Usually there was a purposeful decision behind it, like you suggest with backwards compatibility. It'd be interesting to see if this particular case is addressed in the book.
dvcc 11y ago
For some reason since the release of Windows 8, I have not been able to shake this feeling that all Metro+ adaptations are unpolished. The original Windows Phone release, although lacking features, felt like a product that was well designed, with a clear philosophy. Since then, each adaption seems to bloat just a bit more. Slowly going back to what had already existed, it's a bit disheartening to watch.
coldtea 11y ago
>We started by exploring concepts to push the boundaries of our design system, going from mild to wild variation, trying out new patterns and controls, new type treatment and using color in bold fresh ways. ...and we ended in the smallest possible variation from an unimaginative merging of the classic start menu and the Metro style blocks...
- joshuapants 11y ago
  That doesn't necessarily mean they made a wrong or otherwise bad decision, though. In a way, being too imaginative was what made Windows 8 perform poorly.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Too imaginative? Again there all they did was add some blocks, as the minimal way to have touch targets for running apps and display info.
kmfrk 11y ago
I love the vertical menu bar in landscape mode.
mhomde 11y ago
I'm a bit skeptic about the direction of Windows (Phone) 10. It's not that its bad, it's just that it isn't great and they've missed the opportunity to but in substantial UX improvements. Also having the same interface for Phone/tablet/desktop is a dangerous idea if pushed to far, jack of all trades, master of none. Of course they should share some common ground but they risk sacrificing an tailored experience for each on the altar of standardization. They haven't made any greater strides in addressing thumb ergonomics on larger screens. Sure at least the buttons are at the bottom again but to make it truly next generational they should have utilized more gestures. My guess is they don't dare make Win 10 "too different" for risk alienating developers from other platforms and "mainstream users". That might be the safe choice but it doesn't make for greatness. It feels more like design by committee. There was certainly room for improvement, the old interface was a little too stark, but they're changing course instead of refining. I also call bullshit on "people are circles" argument. The "old" metro was more about full bleed pictures which IMO is more timeles, the circles thing is just being influenced by a current design trend and makes WP less unique. Each to their own I guess.
- freehunter 11y ago
  I hate gestures, especially on larger screens. It 100% ensures I will need to be using two hands, at which point I might as well just have a button. Occasionally I'll try to swipe and find there is a smudge on the screen or maybe the humidity has gone up and my hands are a bit more grippy and whoops, there goes the entire phone out of my hand. On something the size of an iPhone 5, it's fine. On an iPhone 6+ (where you have less of a hold on the phone one-handed anyway), that's a big deal.
  - mhomde 11y ago
    That depends on what kind of gestures you use and where. The closest edges for instance are more easily accessible. Also gestures doesn't necessarily mean swiping.
- lotso 11y ago
  > They haven't made any greater strides in addressing thumb ergonomics on larger screens. Sure at least the buttons are at the bottom again but to make it truly next generational they should have utilized more gestures. Imo gesture based UIs are UIs that are hard to use for average users.
paulojreis 11y ago
UX-wise, this an extremely basic (to avoid saying lousy) article. I ended up with the impression that their source of data is pretty much the feedback from beta users (which is great but highly skewed - to the technocentric pole - data). I would like very much to know more on how they are working with end-users. Are they using ethnographic methods? Observing how Windows is used in the real world? How are they addressing cultural diversity? Are they having focus groups, interviews? What kind of telemetrics they gather? What have they discovered from their huge user base (and huge funding for their design project)? This would be much more interesting - even to the layman, I think - than empty phrases such as, say, "people aren't squares".
brianpgordon 11y ago
> We want to deliver an experience that flexes elegantly across a continuum of devices And there's the punch to the gut. Just like with Windows 8, if you want to use Windows 10 on the desktop your experience is going to be degraded by sacrifices made for mobile. I was really hoping that Microsoft would learn their lesson, since DirectX 12 is going to be exclusive to Windows 10 and I'm going to have to upgrade. They're killing Windows on the desktop (where they have 91% market share) for the sake of Windows on mobile/tablet (where they have 2% market share). Again and again I think how much more attractive Microsoft would be if they decoupled their titanically-successful cloud/enterprise world from their depressing, clueless consumer arm. Microsoft shareholders shouldn't be paying for Nokia, the red ring of death, or the Windows Store.
- jenscow 11y ago
  Without a doubt. They're a "mobile first, cloud first" company, creating a "tablet that can replace your laptop".
- pistle 11y ago
  It sure would be nice if they could come up with something that provided developers an opportunity to develop best of breed experiences based on the type of device, screen, pixel resolution, etc. But, then they did. The Universal App template project provides for making separate UI layers for your applications. If your applications don't make use of screen space, blame developers. The OS and tooling support optimized experiences. There are fewer "opinions" than with 8. Decent Continuum experiences seem intended to make developers stretch, not users.
- Aleman360 11y ago
  The Windows 10 UI framework is resolution-independent and built-in controls are responsive. App devs have everything they need to provide a good UI for every device type. Or you can use HTML/JS. disclaimer: I work on Windows 10
  - jenscow 11y ago
    Despite this, we still have a 2x19" mouse driven non-touch tablet. disclaimer: I use Windows 8 at work.
fredgrott 11y ago
Or: Killing WindowsDesktop..WE HOPE YOU DO NOT NOTICE
ksec 11y ago
Are there no Redesign of Windows Media Player in sight? I love MPC-BE, but i see no reason why Microsoft cant improve their Media Player.

80 points by mpalme 11y ago

Big fan of all caps bold headers.

Here's a bit of analysis by Paul Thurrot on this piece: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/3226/microsoft-explains-the-windows-10-design-changes https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/3226/microsoft-e...

jszymborski 11y ago

"People aren't squares"... ergo they're circles?

pavlov 11y ago
If you ask a 4-year-old to draw a head, it's likely that the base shape is a circle.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Head, people.

wahsd 11y ago

I'm going to lose it if Win10 does not integrate automatic time zone adjustment like OSX. What, does no one at MS mind having to manually change the time zone with 7 clicks every time they travel? Why is it not just two clicks to change the time zone at least? Maybe something like right-click time, select from list of preset "favorite" time zones. That doesn't even requite a time network, let alone being able to read time stamps on surrounding wireless networks. Or there is no Outlook global search or no message threading. That's not new or challenging stuff, Microsoft. WTF? Can you think of anything else basic that is annoying as heck about Windows?

tdicola 11y ago
> Can you think of anything else basic that is annoying as heck about Windows? That it took 10 versions to finally get a resizeable command line terminal that you can copy and paste text within.
- stinos 11y ago
  To be fair: it could be resized (though in an extremely non-user friendly way) and copy/paste has been possible since a long time (no idea since which version, and again, it wasn't particularly user-friendly at all)
  - grimman 11y ago
    Copy+paste has been possible at least since Win2k. But yes, in a very user-unfriendly manner.
- AdeptusAquinas 11y ago
  This. It was just a small thing, that every now and then made life a little more difficult than it needed to be when you tried to paste something and got ~V :D
- fl0wenol 11y ago
  The console was broken for a long time primarily to make it possible to do full-screen VGA text modes for NTVDM-requiring apps. Enabling either or both required elevated hardware privileges so they shoved the whole rendering thing into CSRSS and it gave us the shatter attack and (later) no cut/paste as thanks. I think we're paying for a mistake made upon the alter of backwards compatibility back when asking someone to use virtualization made you sound like a nut (and back before Microsoft had Hyper-V to offer as an alternative to customers who couldn't or wouldn't budge).
  - joshuapants 11y ago
    > I think we're paying for a mistake made upon the alter of backwards compatibility There's a book called The Old New Thing (I think I heard about it here on HN, haven't had a chance to get it yet) that discusses a lot of quirks that Windows has and how they came about. Usually there was a purposeful decision behind it, like you suggest with backwards compatibility. It'd be interesting to see if this particular case is addressed in the book.

dvcc 11y ago

For some reason since the release of Windows 8, I have not been able to shake this feeling that all Metro+ adaptations are unpolished. The original Windows Phone release, although lacking features, felt like a product that was well designed, with a clear philosophy. Since then, each adaption seems to bloat just a bit more. Slowly going back to what had already existed, it's a bit disheartening to watch.

coldtea 11y ago

>We started by exploring concepts to push the boundaries of our design system, going from mild to wild variation, trying out new patterns and controls, new type treatment and using color in bold fresh ways. ...and we ended in the smallest possible variation from an unimaginative merging of the classic start menu and the Metro style blocks...

joshuapants 11y ago
That doesn't necessarily mean they made a wrong or otherwise bad decision, though. In a way, being too imaginative was what made Windows 8 perform poorly.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Too imaginative? Again there all they did was add some blocks, as the minimal way to have touch targets for running apps and display info.

kmfrk 11y ago

I love the vertical menu bar in landscape mode.

mhomde 11y ago

I'm a bit skeptic about the direction of Windows (Phone) 10. It's not that its bad, it's just that it isn't great and they've missed the opportunity to but in substantial UX improvements. Also having the same interface for Phone/tablet/desktop is a dangerous idea if pushed to far, jack of all trades, master of none. Of course they should share some common ground but they risk sacrificing an tailored experience for each on the altar of standardization. They haven't made any greater strides in addressing thumb ergonomics on larger screens. Sure at least the buttons are at the bottom again but to make it truly next generational they should have utilized more gestures. My guess is they don't dare make Win 10 "too different" for risk alienating developers from other platforms and "mainstream users". That might be the safe choice but it doesn't make for greatness. It feels more like design by committee. There was certainly room for improvement, the old interface was a little too stark, but they're changing course instead of refining. I also call bullshit on "people are circles" argument. The "old" metro was more about full bleed pictures which IMO is more timeles, the circles thing is just being influenced by a current design trend and makes WP less unique. Each to their own I guess.

freehunter 11y ago
I hate gestures, especially on larger screens. It 100% ensures I will need to be using two hands, at which point I might as well just have a button. Occasionally I'll try to swipe and find there is a smudge on the screen or maybe the humidity has gone up and my hands are a bit more grippy and whoops, there goes the entire phone out of my hand. On something the size of an iPhone 5, it's fine. On an iPhone 6+ (where you have less of a hold on the phone one-handed anyway), that's a big deal.
- mhomde 11y ago
  That depends on what kind of gestures you use and where. The closest edges for instance are more easily accessible. Also gestures doesn't necessarily mean swiping.
lotso 11y ago
> They haven't made any greater strides in addressing thumb ergonomics on larger screens. Sure at least the buttons are at the bottom again but to make it truly next generational they should have utilized more gestures. Imo gesture based UIs are UIs that are hard to use for average users.

paulojreis 11y ago

UX-wise, this an extremely basic (to avoid saying lousy) article. I ended up with the impression that their source of data is pretty much the feedback from beta users (which is great but highly skewed - to the technocentric pole - data). I would like very much to know more on how they are working with end-users. Are they using ethnographic methods? Observing how Windows is used in the real world? How are they addressing cultural diversity? Are they having focus groups, interviews? What kind of telemetrics they gather? What have they discovered from their huge user base (and huge funding for their design project)? This would be much more interesting - even to the layman, I think - than empty phrases such as, say, "people aren't squares".

brianpgordon 11y ago

> We want to deliver an experience that flexes elegantly across a continuum of devices And there's the punch to the gut. Just like with Windows 8, if you want to use Windows 10 on the desktop your experience is going to be degraded by sacrifices made for mobile. I was really hoping that Microsoft would learn their lesson, since DirectX 12 is going to be exclusive to Windows 10 and I'm going to have to upgrade. They're killing Windows on the desktop (where they have 91% market share) for the sake of Windows on mobile/tablet (where they have 2% market share). Again and again I think how much more attractive Microsoft would be if they decoupled their titanically-successful cloud/enterprise world from their depressing, clueless consumer arm. Microsoft shareholders shouldn't be paying for Nokia, the red ring of death, or the Windows Store.

jenscow 11y ago
Without a doubt. They're a "mobile first, cloud first" company, creating a "tablet that can replace your laptop".
pistle 11y ago
It sure would be nice if they could come up with something that provided developers an opportunity to develop best of breed experiences based on the type of device, screen, pixel resolution, etc. But, then they did. The Universal App template project provides for making separate UI layers for your applications. If your applications don't make use of screen space, blame developers. The OS and tooling support optimized experiences. There are fewer "opinions" than with 8. Decent Continuum experiences seem intended to make developers stretch, not users.
Aleman360 11y ago
The Windows 10 UI framework is resolution-independent and built-in controls are responsive. App devs have everything they need to provide a good UI for every device type. Or you can use HTML/JS. disclaimer: I work on Windows 10
- jenscow 11y ago
  Despite this, we still have a 2x19" mouse driven non-touch tablet. disclaimer: I use Windows 8 at work.

fredgrott 11y ago

Or: Killing WindowsDesktop..WE HOPE YOU DO NOT NOTICE

ksec 11y ago

Are there no Redesign of Windows Media Player in sight? I love MPC-BE, but i see no reason why Microsoft cant improve their Media Player.