4 ms·

Everyone is suggesting OSM here, but I am confused how OSM is any better at keeping out these kinds of spam based edits, especially if it is someone who has mad

by Fogest 11y ago

Everyone is suggesting OSM here, but I am confused how OSM is any better at keeping out these kinds of spam based edits, especially if it is someone who has made a lot of edits? From what I have seen it would be open to the same kind of problem.

Piskvorrr 11y ago
It's way faster at responding to incorrect edits (be they errors/mistakes/vandalism), in my experience. Spam etc. is unavoidable, as with any wiki-type project, but there are (well documented) mechanisms for dealing with it (as opposed to Google's "just drop us a note, and we might take a look, eventually, maybe"). Anecdote: I have tagged a street as "private access only" - and within hours, another mapper contacted me, asked if I took pedestrians into account (I didn't - the access restriction was actually for vehicles), and corrected my edit. Another time I have noticed that a street nearby changed type from "residential" to "secondary" (which does have real-life impacts, e.g. maximum allowed speed); checked IRL and with the mapper, and edited the map to better reflect the actual state.
- Fogest 11y ago
  Any edits I have made on Google Maps have also had the same kind of responses within a day or two. Sure you have to wait a little longer, that makes sense. It really depends on your area in Google Maps. My neighbourhood is barely in OSM, and when editing it I wasn't seeing any other editors in that area.
  - Piskvorrr 11y ago
    Indeed, that's one place where OSM's community status becomes also its weakness: coverage is correlated to other mappers' activity. As for the response - my point lies more with its openness: with GMaps, a correction disappears into a black box, and may be rejected for whatever reason (see the example with wrongly mapped highway somewhere in this thread). With OSM, the mapping criteria are documented, starting with "the map reflects what is out there" - specifically because even official data sources are buggy, and thus only deuterocanonical to meatspace.
    - Fogest 11y ago
      Rarely have I ever seen something incorrect in Google Maps, and when I have I have made edits and the edit was approved in a timely manner, and soon after visible in Google Maps. You have to remember that Google Maps is used by A LOT more people than OSM.
  - rmc 11y ago
    > Any edits I have made on Google Maps have also had the same kind of responses within a day or two. There's a big difference. In OSM you can change it immediatly. The few day turn around is for discussion the issue with the other mapper (since it's a community map). If the person didn't respond, you can change it straight away. > My neighbourhood is barely in OSM How lucky! Something to map! :) Round where I live, nearly everything is mapped, so there is nothing to do. You have a blank canvas to put your neighbourhood on the map!
rmc 11y ago
OSM is full of local people mapping their area, and people care about the map (rather than helping out a big corporation).
- Fogest 11y ago
  You can still care about mapping an area and use Google Maps though. And I don't see the issue with helping a big corporation. They provide a free mapping service with realtime traffic data, satellite views, and more. I don't see how contributing back is so wrong. Why does it matter who made the software and runs it?
  - rmc 11y ago
    Yes, people's opinions aren't all the same. But some people feel less motivated to give free labour for the benefit of another company, and would rather work on something communal which everyone benefits from
    - Fogest 11y ago
      That does make sense. I do contribute to OSM however. I am just stating that Google Maps navigation seems superior.
  - Piskvorrr 11y ago
    Maybe it doesn't matter to you - which is perfectly fine by me, I respect your choice. As for me, I've had "my" data (edits which I have contributed) in too many projects, only to have the "oh, and we're shutting the service down/restricting access/whatever, and no, you can't have the data, all ours!" happen to me. I'm certainly not expecting Google Maps to go under, but I don't like the idea "sure, we will gladly take your data, but you can only do X, Y, and Z with them, and only as long as we're not angry at you." In other words, I have hit the limits of GMaps usefulness for my uses; I understand this doesn't necessarily happen to everyone :) (Also related: in my geographic locations of interest, OSM is now a workable alternative - compared to five years ago, when I was struggling to fit within Google's terms, because there was no usable alternative for me then)
andor 11y ago
OSM probably has a much larger community of editors. Both in absolute numbers and as a share of the users. Because OSM is a community project, editors are more likely to feel responsible for map quality. On Map Maker, users also have limited possibilities once they find problems. I once tried to undo a malicious edit, and as far as I can remember my only options were to comment on it, and to "report a problem".
- Fogest 11y ago
  Do you have a stat for this? Map maker seems much more know and to have a rather large community based on the Google product page. If anything I'd think the community is much larger for the Google project than it is for OSM.
  - andor 11y ago
    I was guessing. The only user number I can find for Map Maker is 25000 in 2013, but there's no reference and it's not clear how many of those are active. http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/google-map-maker-vs-openstreetmap-id-editor/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/google-map-maker-vs-o... OSM currently has 1% active and 2 million registered users: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats So at least in relative numbers, OSM should have more contributors.

by Fogest 11y ago

Piskvorrr 11y ago

It's way faster at responding to incorrect edits (be they errors/mistakes/vandalism), in my experience. Spam etc. is unavoidable, as with any wiki-type project, but there are (well documented) mechanisms for dealing with it (as opposed to Google's "just drop us a note, and we might take a look, eventually, maybe"). Anecdote: I have tagged a street as "private access only" - and within hours, another mapper contacted me, asked if I took pedestrians into account (I didn't - the access restriction was actually for vehicles), and corrected my edit. Another time I have noticed that a street nearby changed type from "residential" to "secondary" (which does have real-life impacts, e.g. maximum allowed speed); checked IRL and with the mapper, and edited the map to better reflect the actual state.

Fogest 11y ago
Any edits I have made on Google Maps have also had the same kind of responses within a day or two. Sure you have to wait a little longer, that makes sense. It really depends on your area in Google Maps. My neighbourhood is barely in OSM, and when editing it I wasn't seeing any other editors in that area.
- Piskvorrr 11y ago
  Indeed, that's one place where OSM's community status becomes also its weakness: coverage is correlated to other mappers' activity. As for the response - my point lies more with its openness: with GMaps, a correction disappears into a black box, and may be rejected for whatever reason (see the example with wrongly mapped highway somewhere in this thread). With OSM, the mapping criteria are documented, starting with "the map reflects what is out there" - specifically because even official data sources are buggy, and thus only deuterocanonical to meatspace.
  - Fogest 11y ago
    Rarely have I ever seen something incorrect in Google Maps, and when I have I have made edits and the edit was approved in a timely manner, and soon after visible in Google Maps. You have to remember that Google Maps is used by A LOT more people than OSM.
- rmc 11y ago
  > Any edits I have made on Google Maps have also had the same kind of responses within a day or two. There's a big difference. In OSM you can change it immediatly. The few day turn around is for discussion the issue with the other mapper (since it's a community map). If the person didn't respond, you can change it straight away. > My neighbourhood is barely in OSM How lucky! Something to map! :) Round where I live, nearly everything is mapped, so there is nothing to do. You have a blank canvas to put your neighbourhood on the map!

rmc 11y ago

OSM is full of local people mapping their area, and people care about the map (rather than helping out a big corporation).

Fogest 11y ago
You can still care about mapping an area and use Google Maps though. And I don't see the issue with helping a big corporation. They provide a free mapping service with realtime traffic data, satellite views, and more. I don't see how contributing back is so wrong. Why does it matter who made the software and runs it?
- rmc 11y ago
  Yes, people's opinions aren't all the same. But some people feel less motivated to give free labour for the benefit of another company, and would rather work on something communal which everyone benefits from
  - Fogest 11y ago
    That does make sense. I do contribute to OSM however. I am just stating that Google Maps navigation seems superior.
- Piskvorrr 11y ago
  Maybe it doesn't matter to you - which is perfectly fine by me, I respect your choice. As for me, I've had "my" data (edits which I have contributed) in too many projects, only to have the "oh, and we're shutting the service down/restricting access/whatever, and no, you can't have the data, all ours!" happen to me. I'm certainly not expecting Google Maps to go under, but I don't like the idea "sure, we will gladly take your data, but you can only do X, Y, and Z with them, and only as long as we're not angry at you." In other words, I have hit the limits of GMaps usefulness for my uses; I understand this doesn't necessarily happen to everyone :) (Also related: in my geographic locations of interest, OSM is now a workable alternative - compared to five years ago, when I was struggling to fit within Google's terms, because there was no usable alternative for me then)

andor 11y ago

OSM probably has a much larger community of editors. Both in absolute numbers and as a share of the users. Because OSM is a community project, editors are more likely to feel responsible for map quality. On Map Maker, users also have limited possibilities once they find problems. I once tried to undo a malicious edit, and as far as I can remember my only options were to comment on it, and to "report a problem".

Fogest 11y ago
Do you have a stat for this? Map maker seems much more know and to have a rather large community based on the Google product page. If anything I'd think the community is much larger for the Google project than it is for OSM.
- andor 11y ago
  I was guessing. The only user number I can find for Map Maker is 25000 in 2013, but there's no reference and it's not clear how many of those are active. http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/google-map-maker-vs-openstreetmap-id-editor/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/google-map-maker-vs-o... OSM currently has 1% active and 2 million registered users: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats So at least in relative numbers, OSM should have more contributors.