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>I would find it hard to believe someone goes to a fundraiser to ignore a genuinely great idea/product just because they feel a bit horny. Why? Humans pass up

by Hytosys 11y ago

>I would find it hard to believe someone goes to a fundraiser to ignore a genuinely great idea/product just because they feel a bit horny. Why? Humans pass up great opportunities due to various predispositions, why not a sexual attraction bias? I fear that you're overlooking decades of documented sexual harassment in this field. It is clearly very hard for some people to take women seriously at all in a professional setting.

benihana 11y ago
>decades of documented sexual harassment in this field In the past four or five years the bringing to light of discrimination, sexism and misogyny in this field has increased (and that's a good thing) and I don't doubt that women have faced discrimination in the past. But this is the first I've heard of decades of documented cases - anecdotal evidence maybe, but not concrete documented issues over the course of years. Can you share some of them?
- jasonwocky 11y ago
  What are you asking for, here? Documented cases...but not anecdotal evidence? Aren't documented cases all individually anecdotes? > Can you share some of them? Do you really want the parent to start listing cases of sexual harassment?
  - Hytosys 11y ago
    From what I understand, benihana rightfully has a problem with my specification of cases from within the field of software (see my reply). I do agree with you and stand by my usage of "documented" as unavoidably synonymous with "individually anecdotal".
  - mreiland 11y ago
    That's a fallacy if I've ever seen one. Documented sexual harassment is not the same claim that was being made above, specifically, that men will do things like forgo investing at an investment event purely because the woman is attractive. And honestly, not even common sense bears that out, you would expect the man to invest unnecessarily in an effort to gain her attention.
    - sukilot 11y ago
      It isn't about forgoing investment, it is about clouding the judgmentused to evaluate the investment opportunity. Imagine a goofy woman in torn clothing approached tmyou at a conference, with a business idea. Would you seriously consider its merits? Now consider someone whose sexual frustration hurts his ability to tell the difference between confident women in business attire from a seductress in party clothes. Lest you think this is extreme, women report his behavior constantly. Compare even just a dorky tech guy wearing a silly tie, to a cute lady wearing a hot pink scarf that falls on her breasts. Note: for women, breasts are not optional attire.
      - mreiland 11y ago
        > It isn't about forgoing investment Ok, great! That means you agree with the previous person who stated they didn't think that was well documented.
- Hytosys 11y ago
  I started scrambling for sources but found that you are correct. From what I could find, There aren't detailed historical records of sexual harassment in Silicon Valley. I found a few vague leads through Google Scholar, but nothing too relevant. I think you'd agree that my point is applicable for working women in general, but empirical evidence becomes much more sparse for a relatively new industry such as software. I'll leave my statement as-is, but I'm sorry to disappoint and to have spoken so reactively and groundlessly.

by Hytosys 11y ago

benihana 11y ago

>decades of documented sexual harassment in this field In the past four or five years the bringing to light of discrimination, sexism and misogyny in this field has increased (and that's a good thing) and I don't doubt that women have faced discrimination in the past. But this is the first I've heard of decades of documented cases - anecdotal evidence maybe, but not concrete documented issues over the course of years. Can you share some of them?

jasonwocky 11y ago
What are you asking for, here? Documented cases...but not anecdotal evidence? Aren't documented cases all individually anecdotes? > Can you share some of them? Do you really want the parent to start listing cases of sexual harassment?
- Hytosys 11y ago
  From what I understand, benihana rightfully has a problem with my specification of cases from within the field of software (see my reply). I do agree with you and stand by my usage of "documented" as unavoidably synonymous with "individually anecdotal".
- mreiland 11y ago
  That's a fallacy if I've ever seen one. Documented sexual harassment is not the same claim that was being made above, specifically, that men will do things like forgo investing at an investment event purely because the woman is attractive. And honestly, not even common sense bears that out, you would expect the man to invest unnecessarily in an effort to gain her attention.
  - sukilot 11y ago
    It isn't about forgoing investment, it is about clouding the judgmentused to evaluate the investment opportunity. Imagine a goofy woman in torn clothing approached tmyou at a conference, with a business idea. Would you seriously consider its merits? Now consider someone whose sexual frustration hurts his ability to tell the difference between confident women in business attire from a seductress in party clothes. Lest you think this is extreme, women report his behavior constantly. Compare even just a dorky tech guy wearing a silly tie, to a cute lady wearing a hot pink scarf that falls on her breasts. Note: for women, breasts are not optional attire.
    - mreiland 11y ago
      > It isn't about forgoing investment Ok, great! That means you agree with the previous person who stated they didn't think that was well documented.
Hytosys 11y ago
I started scrambling for sources but found that you are correct. From what I could find, There aren't detailed historical records of sexual harassment in Silicon Valley. I found a few vague leads through Google Scholar, but nothing too relevant. I think you'd agree that my point is applicable for working women in general, but empirical evidence becomes much more sparse for a relatively new industry such as software. I'll leave my statement as-is, but I'm sorry to disappoint and to have spoken so reactively and groundlessly.