5 ms·

>- of course, you can totally ignore the "modern Windows" side of the coin for now, except that's where Windows is headed It seems to me that they are backing

>- of course, you can totally ignore the "modern Windows" side of the coin for now, except that's where Windows is headed It seems to me that they are backing off metro/"modern Windows" more and more. 8.1 made boot to Desktop the default, they are bringing back the start menu in 10 and Metro apps will run in windows in 10.

MichaelGG 11y ago
Nope, they're going even more in with Win10. Calc.exe is replaced with a shitty, functionally inferior version that takes 1-2 seconds to start. The metroization is all over with its terrible blurry font rendering and gimped settings.
- eropple 11y ago
  YMMV, but I can't tell the difference between the font rendering in Metro apps and WPF apps (on a Retina MacBook Pro). I really like the typeface and rendering choices they've made and it's easy for me to read.
  - MichaelGG 11y ago
    WPF apps also traditionally had shitty font rendering. The issue is that they are pixel unaware so at small sizes it blurs. On a HiDPI screen it's fine, as well as with larger font sizes. On the standard Windows DPI settings, it's terrible. Pixel snapping and ClearType are what deliver sharp small fonts at the cost of less "accuracy" since the renderer may need to bump things around by half a pixel or so. Some people don't care/notice or simply prefer the antialiased look. Up until Win 8/10, this was a choice at the system level, generally.
    - 72deluxe 11y ago
      I remember the good old days where they introduced that in XP (was it XP?) and suddenly all the fonts were blurry red/orange/black/green squishy messes that were impossible to read.
      - MichaelGG 11y ago
        If they looked like that, then run the ClearType tuner. On most LCD panels for everyone I've showed it to, they were pretty impressed with the improved clarity. ClearType was also the subject of some stupid partner-level politics inside of MS, actual end user experience be damned.
        72deluxe 11y ago
        I didn't know about that, thanks!
- yaeger 11y ago
  I like to call it "consolification" as it seems apparent to me that this is where MS is heading with their OS. Not long and Xbox and Windows will be identical. And sadly, it will be the Xbox that has the dominant genes, UI wise at least. It is all over their corporate speak, too. "Life time of device" when discussing the upgrade cycle of the OS... What is the life time of my PC that I built myself out of many different vendors offerings? I, too am a bit worried that all this cloud business is getting more and more traction. When I saw the big warning "Not recommended" when trying to create a normal user account and not one of these windows online account deals I though "You can't be serious". Why would it not be recommended to use a local account which was the norm for so long? Unless they already plan many changes to the OS which would leave users with local accounts in the dust so better to try and convert as many people to our online accounts as possible, they must think. Either way, I am in the process of building a new rig. The old one didn't even have an i3/5/7 CPU to let you know how long I've been using my current PC. And on this new PC, Windows7 Ultimate will be running the show and I will be watching from the outside over the next 5 years minimum how this Win10 business develops. From my point of view they have 5 years to do a lot of 180s and actually make a Windows11 which will take the under-the-hood advancements of Win8-10 and plug that into Windows7 so we can actually have that Windows7 improvement we all want.
  - MichaelGG 11y ago
    A: I'm not sure how much MS really cares about enthusiasts. Reading the Win 10 forums and user voice, most of them seen like idiots, with all sorts of stupid suggestions and just plain drama. Though I agree "lifetime of the device" is a bit worrying. B: I've talked the to the person responsible for MS Accounts in Windows 8. Really cool, smart guy. It was a hard thing to get right, and their intentions were not malicious like it might seem. For most users, using an online account is simply the better solution. Their photos and documents will automatically sync. Apps will automatically sign in and work. They can enable full disk encryption without worrying about losing keys. Enthusiasts can make two extra clicks to avoid it. While it personally annoys me and makes machines easier to compromise (by government), it's the only competitive option for most consumers. Windows 10 is unpolished and downright janky, but if they get it cleaned up, there's little doubt it'll be pretty well accepted. If they had kept the start menu and not made metro apps so dumb in Win 8, it'd have been fine. Though they do need to make calc and other simple apps open as fast as they do on my bloody phone... More concerning is the Windows Store, which is a cesspool, and MS shows no signs of caring. I've spoken to several ISVs that simply cannot get MS to help or respond to removing fake/scam/phishing apps. Even Netflix had trouble with this, FFS.
- 72deluxe 11y ago
  Is it really that bad for Calc???? I was not impressed how they took the windows photo viewer (whatever that app was called) and replaced it with a Metro version that sat at a full-screen splash screen for 5 seconds.

MichaelGG 11y ago

Nope, they're going even more in with Win10. Calc.exe is replaced with a shitty, functionally inferior version that takes 1-2 seconds to start. The metroization is all over with its terrible blurry font rendering and gimped settings.

eropple 11y ago
YMMV, but I can't tell the difference between the font rendering in Metro apps and WPF apps (on a Retina MacBook Pro). I really like the typeface and rendering choices they've made and it's easy for me to read.
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  WPF apps also traditionally had shitty font rendering. The issue is that they are pixel unaware so at small sizes it blurs. On a HiDPI screen it's fine, as well as with larger font sizes. On the standard Windows DPI settings, it's terrible. Pixel snapping and ClearType are what deliver sharp small fonts at the cost of less "accuracy" since the renderer may need to bump things around by half a pixel or so. Some people don't care/notice or simply prefer the antialiased look. Up until Win 8/10, this was a choice at the system level, generally.
  - 72deluxe 11y ago
    I remember the good old days where they introduced that in XP (was it XP?) and suddenly all the fonts were blurry red/orange/black/green squishy messes that were impossible to read.
    - MichaelGG 11y ago
      If they looked like that, then run the ClearType tuner. On most LCD panels for everyone I've showed it to, they were pretty impressed with the improved clarity. ClearType was also the subject of some stupid partner-level politics inside of MS, actual end user experience be damned.
      - 72deluxe 11y ago
        I didn't know about that, thanks!
yaeger 11y ago
I like to call it "consolification" as it seems apparent to me that this is where MS is heading with their OS. Not long and Xbox and Windows will be identical. And sadly, it will be the Xbox that has the dominant genes, UI wise at least. It is all over their corporate speak, too. "Life time of device" when discussing the upgrade cycle of the OS... What is the life time of my PC that I built myself out of many different vendors offerings? I, too am a bit worried that all this cloud business is getting more and more traction. When I saw the big warning "Not recommended" when trying to create a normal user account and not one of these windows online account deals I though "You can't be serious". Why would it not be recommended to use a local account which was the norm for so long? Unless they already plan many changes to the OS which would leave users with local accounts in the dust so better to try and convert as many people to our online accounts as possible, they must think. Either way, I am in the process of building a new rig. The old one didn't even have an i3/5/7 CPU to let you know how long I've been using my current PC. And on this new PC, Windows7 Ultimate will be running the show and I will be watching from the outside over the next 5 years minimum how this Win10 business develops. From my point of view they have 5 years to do a lot of 180s and actually make a Windows11 which will take the under-the-hood advancements of Win8-10 and plug that into Windows7 so we can actually have that Windows7 improvement we all want.
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  A: I'm not sure how much MS really cares about enthusiasts. Reading the Win 10 forums and user voice, most of them seen like idiots, with all sorts of stupid suggestions and just plain drama. Though I agree "lifetime of the device" is a bit worrying. B: I've talked the to the person responsible for MS Accounts in Windows 8. Really cool, smart guy. It was a hard thing to get right, and their intentions were not malicious like it might seem. For most users, using an online account is simply the better solution. Their photos and documents will automatically sync. Apps will automatically sign in and work. They can enable full disk encryption without worrying about losing keys. Enthusiasts can make two extra clicks to avoid it. While it personally annoys me and makes machines easier to compromise (by government), it's the only competitive option for most consumers. Windows 10 is unpolished and downright janky, but if they get it cleaned up, there's little doubt it'll be pretty well accepted. If they had kept the start menu and not made metro apps so dumb in Win 8, it'd have been fine. Though they do need to make calc and other simple apps open as fast as they do on my bloody phone... More concerning is the Windows Store, which is a cesspool, and MS shows no signs of caring. I've spoken to several ISVs that simply cannot get MS to help or respond to removing fake/scam/phishing apps. Even Netflix had trouble with this, FFS.
72deluxe 11y ago
Is it really that bad for Calc???? I was not impressed how they took the windows photo viewer (whatever that app was called) and replaced it with a Metro version that sat at a full-screen splash screen for 5 seconds.