5 ms·

I periodically see posts about how hard it is to get a job as a computer programmer on this forum. I think I have a different point of view on this one. I prev

I periodically see posts about how hard it is to get a job as a computer programmer on this forum. I think I have a different point of view on this one. I previously worked as a classical orchestral musician. In the entire United States, there are a maybe about 10 full time jobs open per year for any given instrument (excepting strings). For most instruments, there are thousands of music performance majors who graduate from colleges around the US each year. When there is an audition, people fly to the audition at their own expense from all over the world. If you are even permitted to audition for the orchestra, you will face between 100 and 300 competitors. Almost everyone at these auditions has at least 15 years of playing experience and advanced (expensive) degrees. In the initial round, players have between 3 and 5 minutes to advance. Often the audition will consist of many rounds that will span 4 or 5 days (depending on the number of candidates). Even if you win the audition, you don't necessarily have the gig. You are often on a six month to one year trial. It is very common for musicians to win an audition, play with an orchestra for a year, and then lose the job, never to win an audition ever again. It is also common for a musician to win a job, only to find that the orchestra is insolvent a few years later. Often people will spend a decade going to auditions around the US before they win a position or just give up. The last audition I attended was with the San Antonio Symphony. There were over 100 players at the audition from all around the US. The base salary for the San Antonio Symphony is $26K per year. By contrast, the last time I was in San Francisco (2.5 years ago), I applied to about 80 web development jobs in 1 week. At the end of the week I had landed a job that paid $120K per year, great health care, free massages once a week, and all the food I can eat. I had 1.5 years of professional development experience and no CS degree.

senorito 11y ago
Interesting comparison
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- santoriv 11y ago
  There aren't that many full time jobs even if you take into account lower tier full-time orchestras. The ~10/year number is based on my experience on the audition circuit. Also, I am not aware of any orchestras that involve one member of the section having a full-time gig and the rest of the section not. You can't have an orchestra with only principal players. You have to hire everyone to have a concert. Regarding your comparison to number of jobs to a large tech company: Full time orchestras in the US: ~40 Full Members per orchestra: ~100 (Maximum) Total Orchestral Jobs: ~4000 (This is a deliberately high estimate) Google employees: 53,600 Microsoft employees: 99,000 Apple employees: 92,000 Amazon employees: 110,000 You are correct that you can be a part of the "Freeway Philharmonic". You will make between $50 and $150 per service (2 to 3 hour rehearsal or concert) playing maybe 6 services per week. Sometimes you will get paid for mileage. Sometimes the orchestra will arrange for you to sleep at a donor's house. Occasionally you will get a per diem (basically daily pocket money for food and gas). Regional orchestras have between 4 and 12 concert weeks of work per year. There is very little work during the summer. You can pack a suitcase and drive from town to town every week and survive. Nobody has work every week. If you don't work, you don't get paid. I did this for about 3 years. Some people do this for their entire career. Also, just so you have an idea of the competitiveness level of these lower tier part-time orchestras. A few years ago, the Oakland Symphony had a section flute audition. Over 150 people showed up from all around the world. The Oakland Symphony has 4 weeks of work per year - which would amount to a maximum of about $4000 yearly for that position. Luckily for me, I have found that I enjoy programming a lot more than performing with an orchestra. Now my life is a lot easier.
  - diyorgasms 11y ago
    You make some very good points here, and I'm fairly convinced. However, I know for a fact that my local orchestra works on a full-time principal, part-time section basis. Just how common that is, I have no idea, but I have an anecdote to show that they do exist. Also the musician's union signed off on the arrangement.
anthony_barker 11y ago
Ironically one of my best hires was just finishing his degree in particle theoretical physics at a top school. No puzzles at all - all questions were focused on would we want to work with this person. I figured his physics background pretty much proved he can figure puzzles out. I did call his thesis advisor as a reference. Your comparison with music kind of reminds be of people applying for unique faculty positions in Universities. It sounds like is that there are lots of qualified applicants and not many decent jobs.

senorito 11y ago

Interesting comparison

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santoriv 11y ago
There aren't that many full time jobs even if you take into account lower tier full-time orchestras. The ~10/year number is based on my experience on the audition circuit. Also, I am not aware of any orchestras that involve one member of the section having a full-time gig and the rest of the section not. You can't have an orchestra with only principal players. You have to hire everyone to have a concert. Regarding your comparison to number of jobs to a large tech company: Full time orchestras in the US: ~40 Full Members per orchestra: ~100 (Maximum) Total Orchestral Jobs: ~4000 (This is a deliberately high estimate) Google employees: 53,600 Microsoft employees: 99,000 Apple employees: 92,000 Amazon employees: 110,000 You are correct that you can be a part of the "Freeway Philharmonic". You will make between $50 and $150 per service (2 to 3 hour rehearsal or concert) playing maybe 6 services per week. Sometimes you will get paid for mileage. Sometimes the orchestra will arrange for you to sleep at a donor's house. Occasionally you will get a per diem (basically daily pocket money for food and gas). Regional orchestras have between 4 and 12 concert weeks of work per year. There is very little work during the summer. You can pack a suitcase and drive from town to town every week and survive. Nobody has work every week. If you don't work, you don't get paid. I did this for about 3 years. Some people do this for their entire career. Also, just so you have an idea of the competitiveness level of these lower tier part-time orchestras. A few years ago, the Oakland Symphony had a section flute audition. Over 150 people showed up from all around the world. The Oakland Symphony has 4 weeks of work per year - which would amount to a maximum of about $4000 yearly for that position. Luckily for me, I have found that I enjoy programming a lot more than performing with an orchestra. Now my life is a lot easier.
- diyorgasms 11y ago
  You make some very good points here, and I'm fairly convinced. However, I know for a fact that my local orchestra works on a full-time principal, part-time section basis. Just how common that is, I have no idea, but I have an anecdote to show that they do exist. Also the musician's union signed off on the arrangement.

anthony_barker 11y ago

Ironically one of my best hires was just finishing his degree in particle theoretical physics at a top school. No puzzles at all - all questions were focused on would we want to work with this person. I figured his physics background pretty much proved he can figure puzzles out. I did call his thesis advisor as a reference. Your comparison with music kind of reminds be of people applying for unique faculty positions in Universities. It sounds like is that there are lots of qualified applicants and not many decent jobs.