5 ms·

> But all three of us are very reluctant to start interviewing because we all know how much interviewing really really SUCKS. Have you interviewed much recentl

by azakai 11y ago

> But all three of us are very reluctant to start interviewing because we all know how much interviewing really really SUCKS. Have you interviewed much recently, or are you going on what you hear about bad things in the interview process? (The bad stuff tends to get more mentions.) It might not be as bad as you think. Yes, some amount of whiteboard work is common. But it shouldn't be about "topics you may or may not know" - that sounds bizarre to me. You should be tested on a language you know, and on a problem that a reasonable person would be able to solve. Also, the focus is often on how you approach the problem, not if you write up a perfect solution or not. Overall, what you describe sounds like a horror story ("one interviewer wants us to code a particular dynamic programming question the way they are picturing in their head"). I don't think that's as common as you appear to think. It sounds like you are reluctant to even start interviewing. Why not try, and see how it goes?

zerr 11y ago
> Also, the focus is often on how you approach the problem, not if you write up a perfect solution or not. This is a common misconception. Unfortunately, most (read 99%) interviewers expect you to come up with exactly the same solution they have in mind (or in paper/screen in front of them). Even if your solution is correct but different, as soon as you start to diverge from their solution, you're red-flagged.
- azakai 11y ago
  I'm not sure how you can be so certain? (99% of interviewers..?) I interviewed a bunch, but not for a few years. More recently, I've been on the other side of things. In all my experience: yes, some people expect a very specific answer from you, but not most. Most people look at how you approach the problem, how you solve it, and what questions you ask about it if you need any clarifications. You can often tell someone is a good programmer even if they don't fully solve a problem, or if they happen to pick an approach that doesn't work out. Again, that's my personal experience and knowledge, so I can't be sure how common it is.
  - zerr 11y ago
    99% is exaggeration (or "hyperbolation" ), but I wanted to highlight the issue. From my personal experience, and from what I hear from others. In fact, I've never experienced "wants to know how you approach the problem" moment ever.
- plorkyeran 11y ago
  Do you have any sort of evidence to support this claim? As far as I can tell I've never had an interviewer reject me for coming up with a solution other than the one they wanted. At worst I've had people strongly nudge me in the direction they wanted me to go. I'm certainly willing to believe that terrible interviewers are out there, but I have trouble believing that I've hit the 1% every time.
  - innocentoldguy 11y ago
    I have. I once had an interviewer ask me to write CSS code that generated an American flag. I used the nth-child selector to render 13 alternating red and white stripes. The guy asked me why I did that instead of making the background white and painting red stripes over the top of it. I didn't get the job and the reason the recruiter told me I was rejected was because my CSS code was wrong.
algoal 11y ago
Collectively, the three of us have interviewed dozens of times over the last 3 years. The description is based on this, so it is not just hearsay.
- azakai 11y ago
  I see. Perhaps you applied to a certain type of company? That's my only guess as to why your experiences are different from mine. Company size/age/field might all matter here.
  - PopeOfNope 11y ago
    More anecdata: I've also went through several rounds of interviews in the past 3 years and I can confirm algoal's point of view. The interview process absolutely is broken at most places in SV. It also appears to be broken in the most demeaning way possible for the applicant. Harsh criticism I can handle. Gladhanding and well wishes followed by a nuclear "no response ever again by anyone who works here, even if you knew them at previous companies" is more than I can handle. PS: I interviewed at mid-sized startup companies, all 100-300 people.
time_is_scary 11y ago
This is the biggest myth that you will hear from every recruiter. If you do not get the problem correct, you will not get an offer. If you go through a 3 person loop and get 2 problems right and 1 wrong, you might get an offer, but I guarantee that the voting would be two "hire" votes from the questions you aced, and a "no-hire" vote from the one you failed. There are a couple of reasons for this. The most obvious is that, given two candidates, the better choice will (at least appear) to be the candidate who got the most questions right. The more common scenario that I have seen is that engineers simply work backwards. If you got the solution wrong (or didn't finish) their thinking will go something like: they got it wrong -> they went down the wrong path since they chose a hashmap instead of a tree -> they are weak in data structures -> no hire I am at one of the bigger tech companies, and it really is a roll of the dice on if you get a question on a topic you have studied. Especially if you have been out of school for awhile. The worst part is that bigger tech companies force hiring on the engineers. Hiring candidates becomes part of your own career advancement. If it is a big company, you will go to a day of training and suddenly be a professional interviewer. It is even worse since my opinion (that this system is awful) seems to be the minority. All of my colleagues think they are great at hiring, pontificate over lunch on what makes a good candidate, and discuss their favorite questions (well, their favorite questions from the standard set of questions from the company bank. This is science here, obviously we use standardized questions.) Of course, if you fail in the interview, you can always come back. It's not like I've ever heard a colleague say, "sigh I am not looking forward to this interview; We've already turned them down once."

by azakai 11y ago

zerr 11y ago

> Also, the focus is often on how you approach the problem, not if you write up a perfect solution or not. This is a common misconception. Unfortunately, most (read 99%) interviewers expect you to come up with exactly the same solution they have in mind (or in paper/screen in front of them). Even if your solution is correct but different, as soon as you start to diverge from their solution, you're red-flagged.

azakai 11y ago
I'm not sure how you can be so certain? (99% of interviewers..?) I interviewed a bunch, but not for a few years. More recently, I've been on the other side of things. In all my experience: yes, some people expect a very specific answer from you, but not most. Most people look at how you approach the problem, how you solve it, and what questions you ask about it if you need any clarifications. You can often tell someone is a good programmer even if they don't fully solve a problem, or if they happen to pick an approach that doesn't work out. Again, that's my personal experience and knowledge, so I can't be sure how common it is.
- zerr 11y ago
  99% is exaggeration (or "hyperbolation" ), but I wanted to highlight the issue. From my personal experience, and from what I hear from others. In fact, I've never experienced "wants to know how you approach the problem" moment ever.
plorkyeran 11y ago
Do you have any sort of evidence to support this claim? As far as I can tell I've never had an interviewer reject me for coming up with a solution other than the one they wanted. At worst I've had people strongly nudge me in the direction they wanted me to go. I'm certainly willing to believe that terrible interviewers are out there, but I have trouble believing that I've hit the 1% every time.
- innocentoldguy 11y ago
  I have. I once had an interviewer ask me to write CSS code that generated an American flag. I used the nth-child selector to render 13 alternating red and white stripes. The guy asked me why I did that instead of making the background white and painting red stripes over the top of it. I didn't get the job and the reason the recruiter told me I was rejected was because my CSS code was wrong.

algoal 11y ago

Collectively, the three of us have interviewed dozens of times over the last 3 years. The description is based on this, so it is not just hearsay.

azakai 11y ago
I see. Perhaps you applied to a certain type of company? That's my only guess as to why your experiences are different from mine. Company size/age/field might all matter here.
- PopeOfNope 11y ago
  More anecdata: I've also went through several rounds of interviews in the past 3 years and I can confirm algoal's point of view. The interview process absolutely is broken at most places in SV. It also appears to be broken in the most demeaning way possible for the applicant. Harsh criticism I can handle. Gladhanding and well wishes followed by a nuclear "no response ever again by anyone who works here, even if you knew them at previous companies" is more than I can handle. PS: I interviewed at mid-sized startup companies, all 100-300 people.

time_is_scary 11y ago

This is the biggest myth that you will hear from every recruiter. If you do not get the problem correct, you will not get an offer. If you go through a 3 person loop and get 2 problems right and 1 wrong, you might get an offer, but I guarantee that the voting would be two "hire" votes from the questions you aced, and a "no-hire" vote from the one you failed. There are a couple of reasons for this. The most obvious is that, given two candidates, the better choice will (at least appear) to be the candidate who got the most questions right. The more common scenario that I have seen is that engineers simply work backwards. If you got the solution wrong (or didn't finish) their thinking will go something like: they got it wrong -> they went down the wrong path since they chose a hashmap instead of a tree -> they are weak in data structures -> no hire I am at one of the bigger tech companies, and it really is a roll of the dice on if you get a question on a topic you have studied. Especially if you have been out of school for awhile. The worst part is that bigger tech companies force hiring on the engineers. Hiring candidates becomes part of your own career advancement. If it is a big company, you will go to a day of training and suddenly be a professional interviewer. It is even worse since my opinion (that this system is awful) seems to be the minority. All of my colleagues think they are great at hiring, pontificate over lunch on what makes a good candidate, and discuss their favorite questions (well, their favorite questions from the standard set of questions from the company bank. This is science here, obviously we use standardized questions.) Of course, if you fail in the interview, you can always come back. It's not like I've ever heard a colleague say, "sigh I am not looking forward to this interview; We've already turned them down once."