8 ms·

USA Where the Poor Live Dearly

13 points by cyphunk 11y ago

cyphunk 11y ago
why would the original submission of this article be flagged? Not worth discussing? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516703
- andor 11y ago
  I was wondering about that as well. The discussion so far was far from a flamewar.
  - Mithaldu 11y ago
    The article seems to have done two things wrong: 1. Got facts wrong, apparently. I'm not in a situation to know whether it did, but it seems to have, and articles that seem wrong do get flaggedby users, presumably to prevent spreading mistruths. 2. It criticized the USA. I read HN via http://www.hckrnews.com/ http://www.hckrnews.com/ and thus get to see a lot of the flagged articles even long after they're dead. Articles that criticize the USA are always in that category. That doesn't mean all of HN flags those, just that there is a critical mass of users with the necessary amount of karma who dislike them.
    - cyphunk 11y ago
      On point 2, HN flagging things that are critical of the US... I find surprising. On point 1, facts. I haven't found where to dispute the articles facts yet. Where the commenters dispute it's actually an issue of perception. - [1] Predetory Loan and banking services such as ACE that market to predominant poor neighborhoods has a negative impact that is documented in study and pop [2] - [3] the initial argument by power user tptacek is that the author didn't bother to check poor white parts of the country. If you assume this article was about something other than black poverty, okay I understand the argument. But it was about poverty effecting the black community. So I don't see the factual problem. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516861 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDylgzybWAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDylgzybWAw 3. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516769
      - Mithaldu 11y ago
        On rereading the article in german, the title is poorly chosen and misrepresents the content, but i also do find the content largely correct (also see my comment to jqm). However, do note i said "seems wrong", not "is wrong". As for flagging things that are critical, i don't find it very surprising. If someone from outside your country suddenly starts saying strong things about your country it can easily become difficult to differentiate between earnest criticism and trolling, even for one who has little patriotism.
- tptacek 11y ago
  I flagged this one too, and hope others will as well: it's especially clear to me that stories flagged off the site shouldn't dogfight that decision with new submissions under different URLs. I flagged for two reasons: * First, it's off-topic for the site (see: guidelines), a story of the kind usually flagged off. * Second, it's just a bad story, that doesn't overcome the site's presumption against stories like this by dint of superior quality.
  - cyphunk 11y ago
    1. I've seen things more off topic than this, especially things which relate to currently popular events. 2. "bad story" is subjective and many disagree. I didn't know that disagreeing with opinion was reason to flag. but anyway, you're a power user. do what you like.
jqm 11y ago
The title is "where the poor live dearly" but then the article goes on to talk exclusively about perceived racial injustice. Maybe the author didn't spend enough time in the US to see there are vast swaths of the country full of poor Whites and Hispanics also? Nor notice that there are in fact well to do Blacks in the US? It was a dumb article. And poverty happens to people of all races.
- cyphunk 11y ago
  Because the article isn't about white poverty. It comes at a time of the Baltimore riots and I think it's understandable it doesn't attempt to address all forms of poverty.
  - jqm 11y ago
    Well then... it has a misleading title.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    It comes at a time of riots in Baltimore, but focuses on Ferguson and Park Slope; these are three cities that have virtually nothing in common: * Ferguson is a city not just influenced by racism but literally produced by it: it's an artifact of redlining and white flight, with a majority black population and a municipal government and police force dominated by whites. * Baltimore is a city whose government is dominated by blacks, with a black mayor, black police commissioner, and a 50/50 black/white police force; the city of Baltimore was a manufacturing and shipping hub devastated by globalization, unlike St. Louis, which has a diverse economy with strong finance and health care sectors. * Park Slope is an economically elite section of New York City where white corporate lawyers happen to have Jamaican nannies, which apparently says something about race relations in the US, though I'm not clear what that's meant to be. It's a dumb article. It's not that it doesn't address all forms of poverty; it's that it doesn't have anything coherent to say about any of them that any US high school sophomore couldn't conjure up the night before the due date for a social studies term paper.
    - cyphunk 11y ago

13 points by cyphunk 11y ago

why would the original submission of this article be flagged? Not worth discussing? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516703

andor 11y ago
I was wondering about that as well. The discussion so far was far from a flamewar.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  The article seems to have done two things wrong: 1. Got facts wrong, apparently. I'm not in a situation to know whether it did, but it seems to have, and articles that seem wrong do get flaggedby users, presumably to prevent spreading mistruths. 2. It criticized the USA. I read HN via http://www.hckrnews.com/ http://www.hckrnews.com/ and thus get to see a lot of the flagged articles even long after they're dead. Articles that criticize the USA are always in that category. That doesn't mean all of HN flags those, just that there is a critical mass of users with the necessary amount of karma who dislike them.
  - cyphunk 11y ago
    On point 2, HN flagging things that are critical of the US... I find surprising. On point 1, facts. I haven't found where to dispute the articles facts yet. Where the commenters dispute it's actually an issue of perception. - [1] Predetory Loan and banking services such as ACE that market to predominant poor neighborhoods has a negative impact that is documented in study and pop [2] - [3] the initial argument by power user tptacek is that the author didn't bother to check poor white parts of the country. If you assume this article was about something other than black poverty, okay I understand the argument. But it was about poverty effecting the black community. So I don't see the factual problem. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516861 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDylgzybWAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDylgzybWAw 3. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9516769
    - Mithaldu 11y ago
      On rereading the article in german, the title is poorly chosen and misrepresents the content, but i also do find the content largely correct (also see my comment to jqm). However, do note i said "seems wrong", not "is wrong". As for flagging things that are critical, i don't find it very surprising. If someone from outside your country suddenly starts saying strong things about your country it can easily become difficult to differentiate between earnest criticism and trolling, even for one who has little patriotism.
tptacek 11y ago
I flagged this one too, and hope others will as well: it's especially clear to me that stories flagged off the site shouldn't dogfight that decision with new submissions under different URLs. I flagged for two reasons: * First, it's off-topic for the site (see: guidelines), a story of the kind usually flagged off. * Second, it's just a bad story, that doesn't overcome the site's presumption against stories like this by dint of superior quality.
- cyphunk 11y ago
  1. I've seen things more off topic than this, especially things which relate to currently popular events. 2. "bad story" is subjective and many disagree. I didn't know that disagreeing with opinion was reason to flag. but anyway, you're a power user. do what you like.

jqm 11y ago

The title is "where the poor live dearly" but then the article goes on to talk exclusively about perceived racial injustice. Maybe the author didn't spend enough time in the US to see there are vast swaths of the country full of poor Whites and Hispanics also? Nor notice that there are in fact well to do Blacks in the US? It was a dumb article. And poverty happens to people of all races.

cyphunk 11y ago
Because the article isn't about white poverty. It comes at a time of the Baltimore riots and I think it's understandable it doesn't attempt to address all forms of poverty.
- jqm 11y ago
  Well then... it has a misleading title.
- tptacek 11y ago
  It comes at a time of riots in Baltimore, but focuses on Ferguson and Park Slope; these are three cities that have virtually nothing in common: * Ferguson is a city not just influenced by racism but literally produced by it: it's an artifact of redlining and white flight, with a majority black population and a municipal government and police force dominated by whites. * Baltimore is a city whose government is dominated by blacks, with a black mayor, black police commissioner, and a 50/50 black/white police force; the city of Baltimore was a manufacturing and shipping hub devastated by globalization, unlike St. Louis, which has a diverse economy with strong finance and health care sectors. * Park Slope is an economically elite section of New York City where white corporate lawyers happen to have Jamaican nannies, which apparently says something about race relations in the US, though I'm not clear what that's meant to be. It's a dumb article. It's not that it doesn't address all forms of poverty; it's that it doesn't have anything coherent to say about any of them that any US high school sophomore couldn't conjure up the night before the due date for a social studies term paper.
  - cyphunk 11y ago