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The problem we're discussing isn't that there are too many minorities imprisoned for drug crimes. The problem is systemic disparate impact throughout the entire

The problem we're discussing isn't that there are too many minorities imprisoned for drug crimes. The problem is systemic disparate impact throughout the entire criminal justice system. Getting rid of drug crimes does nothing to solve that, because you see the same pattern in basically every type of crime. Legalizing drugs would reduce the number of crimes, but not the racial bias. You could just as easily "solve" the problem of racial bias by getting rid of any class of crimes. Like, let's legalize speeding because more blacks are pulled over for speeding than whites. Great. But the fundamental problem of inequality still remains in every other area of the criminal justice system. Also, how do mandatory minimum sentences lead to more bias? Wouldn't that lead to less bias, since it removes biaased human judgement from part of the process? Otherwise you'd probably see whites getting more lenient sentences than they already do.

AnthonyMouse 11y ago
> Getting rid of drug crimes does nothing to solve that, because you see the same pattern in basically every type of crime. No you don't. There is no epidemic of black men being convicted of insider trading or wire fraud. > Like, let's legalize speeding because more blacks are pulled over for speeding than whites. You're saying that like it's a completely ridiculous suggestion, but there is truth in it. Most traffic engineering manuals recommend that speed limits normally be set at the 85th percentile traffic speed but most speed limits in the US are set around 10MPH below that speed, resulting in widespread lawbreaking. Having laws that most people violate but only some people are punished for is not the rule of law and is exactly what facilitates racially biased selective enforcement. > Also, how do mandatory minimum sentences lead to more bias? Wouldn't that lead to less bias, since it removes biaased human judgement from part of the process? Mandatory minimum sentences amplify the biases in who is arrested, charged and convicted by increasing the average penalties. They also don't eliminate bias in sentencing because a biased decision maker can still give black defendants more than the mandatory minimum. The only extent to which they could be said to reduce bias is in reducing the possible range of penalties imposed, but the same range reduction could be achieved by lowering the maximum rather than raising the minimum.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > There is no epidemic of black men being convicted of insider trading or wire fraud. I'm willing to bet that the few black men that are caught for this type of crime are more likely to face court and have more severe punishment imposed.
  - AnthonyMouse 11y ago
    > I'm willing to bet that the few black men that are caught for this type of crime are more likely to face court and have more severe punishment imposed. Even if that were true, constricting the scope of the problem to that sort of rare case would be a thousand fold improvement from the status quo.
DanBC 11y ago
> Getting rid of drug crimes does nothing to solve that, because you see the same pattern in basically every type of crime. Legalizing drugs would reduce the number of crimes, but not the racial bias. That's true, but since drug crime is used as a tool by the people who discriminate it's still useful to remove that tool of discrimination.

AnthonyMouse 11y ago

> Getting rid of drug crimes does nothing to solve that, because you see the same pattern in basically every type of crime. No you don't. There is no epidemic of black men being convicted of insider trading or wire fraud. > Like, let's legalize speeding because more blacks are pulled over for speeding than whites. You're saying that like it's a completely ridiculous suggestion, but there is truth in it. Most traffic engineering manuals recommend that speed limits normally be set at the 85th percentile traffic speed but most speed limits in the US are set around 10MPH below that speed, resulting in widespread lawbreaking. Having laws that most people violate but only some people are punished for is not the rule of law and is exactly what facilitates racially biased selective enforcement. > Also, how do mandatory minimum sentences lead to more bias? Wouldn't that lead to less bias, since it removes biaased human judgement from part of the process? Mandatory minimum sentences amplify the biases in who is arrested, charged and convicted by increasing the average penalties. They also don't eliminate bias in sentencing because a biased decision maker can still give black defendants more than the mandatory minimum. The only extent to which they could be said to reduce bias is in reducing the possible range of penalties imposed, but the same range reduction could be achieved by lowering the maximum rather than raising the minimum.

DanBC 11y ago
> There is no epidemic of black men being convicted of insider trading or wire fraud. I'm willing to bet that the few black men that are caught for this type of crime are more likely to face court and have more severe punishment imposed.
- AnthonyMouse 11y ago
  > I'm willing to bet that the few black men that are caught for this type of crime are more likely to face court and have more severe punishment imposed. Even if that were true, constricting the scope of the problem to that sort of rare case would be a thousand fold improvement from the status quo.

DanBC 11y ago

> Getting rid of drug crimes does nothing to solve that, because you see the same pattern in basically every type of crime. Legalizing drugs would reduce the number of crimes, but not the racial bias. That's true, but since drug crime is used as a tool by the people who discriminate it's still useful to remove that tool of discrimination.