5 ms·

Something like systemd except being ONLY an init system would be really great.

by blueflow 12y ago

rascul 12y ago
http://uselessd.darknedgy.net http://uselessd.darknedgy.net
- mercurial 12y ago
  This looks surprisingly tempting. I agree with a lot of the ideas behind systemd, but at the rate it is growing, I'm going to type this in systemd-firefox in systemd-xmonad in six months. How stable is it in practice?
  - chris_wot 12y ago
    I can't see why most people would want that, with the exception of replacing journald. Why strip out device init, or even timers? Swap init is less useful, but I don't see the harm. What is it that makes uselessd attractive? And why do you consider systemd to be bloated?
    - mercurial 12y ago
      I like my init system to be an init system. However, the scope of systemd seems to expand monthly. I mean, you get an ntp client, a dhcp client, a logging system, and they apparently want to expand into containerized applications? I'd rather have a project with a smaller, well-defined scope.
      - chris_wot 12y ago
        You can turn these services off :-) http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/three-levels-of-off http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/three-levels-of-off
        mercurial 12y ago
        I know, but I still don't think they belong under the same umbrella.
chris_wot 12y ago
I challenge you to show me what part of systemd isn't directly related to inititialization of services.
- agumonkey 12y ago
  Maybe the parameters and interface will simplify over time. Patterns emerge with use.
  - chris_wot 12y ago
    Yeah, that doesn't answer my question. What isn't necessary?
    - agumonkey 12y ago
      I don't know all of systemd but : - journal - networkd - console Are already far from generic system config/init parts. These components are very nice and cleaner than older alternatives but it feels like unnecessary coupling. Also every release added magic variables to handle corner cases. They're proficient but complexity is increasing.
- blueflow 12y ago
  journald, logind. chrooting (nspawn). tty-ask-password-agent.
  - chris_wot 12y ago
    nspawn inits. journald - fair point. logind inits. systemd-tty-ask-password-agent is a password agent that handles password requests of the system, for example for hard disk encryption passwords or SSL certificate passwords that need to be queried at boot-time or during runtime.
andor 12y ago
That's just not their plan. They want to modernize and standardize (to reduce fragmentation) the whole userspace. Replacing init is a big, but far from the only part of the process.

Something like systemd except being ONLY an init system would be really great.

rascul 12y ago

http://uselessd.darknedgy.net http://uselessd.darknedgy.net

mercurial 12y ago
This looks surprisingly tempting. I agree with a lot of the ideas behind systemd, but at the rate it is growing, I'm going to type this in systemd-firefox in systemd-xmonad in six months. How stable is it in practice?
- chris_wot 12y ago
  I can't see why most people would want that, with the exception of replacing journald. Why strip out device init, or even timers? Swap init is less useful, but I don't see the harm. What is it that makes uselessd attractive? And why do you consider systemd to be bloated?
  - mercurial 12y ago
    I like my init system to be an init system. However, the scope of systemd seems to expand monthly. I mean, you get an ntp client, a dhcp client, a logging system, and they apparently want to expand into containerized applications? I'd rather have a project with a smaller, well-defined scope.
    - chris_wot 12y ago
      You can turn these services off :-) http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/three-levels-of-off http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/three-levels-of-off
      - mercurial 12y ago
        I know, but I still don't think they belong under the same umbrella.

chris_wot 12y ago

I challenge you to show me what part of systemd isn't directly related to inititialization of services.

agumonkey 12y ago
Maybe the parameters and interface will simplify over time. Patterns emerge with use.
- chris_wot 12y ago
  Yeah, that doesn't answer my question. What isn't necessary?
  - agumonkey 12y ago
    I don't know all of systemd but : - journal - networkd - console Are already far from generic system config/init parts. These components are very nice and cleaner than older alternatives but it feels like unnecessary coupling. Also every release added magic variables to handle corner cases. They're proficient but complexity is increasing.
blueflow 12y ago
journald, logind. chrooting (nspawn). tty-ask-password-agent.
- chris_wot 12y ago
  nspawn inits. journald - fair point. logind inits. systemd-tty-ask-password-agent is a password agent that handles password requests of the system, for example for hard disk encryption passwords or SSL certificate passwords that need to be queried at boot-time or during runtime.

andor 12y ago

That's just not their plan. They want to modernize and standardize (to reduce fragmentation) the whole userspace. Replacing init is a big, but far from the only part of the process.