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If many in the U.S. continue to obstruct education (by defunding or by arguing against the value of college) and other countries continue to increase college ed

If many in the U.S. continue to obstruct education (by defunding or by arguing against the value of college) and other countries continue to increase college education, it's not hard to see which countries will have the most educated populations with all the benefits that entails, including attracting and creating the highest skilled jobs.

cjensen 11y ago
This has the same problem as most seemingly-good ideas: unintended consequences. If you give every US citizen who attends a US college $20K/year, think about what happens to popular universities with fixed numbers of slots like Stanford or UC Berkeley. They have every incentive to raise their fees by $20K/year. It would still improve the financial situation of students: the universities would probably use some of the extra funding to ensure they don't price out people who can't afford it. It just wouldn't improve it as much as you might anticipate. Second, consider who you are giving this money to: college graduates are the top earners in the US. Giving subsidies to those who will be richest is a deeply unfair idea. (Needs-based subsidies to help poorer families afford college and provide an opportunity to join the richer classes, by contrast, does make sense) Free community college is the way to go. Give everyone an opportunity to see if they can make it in college, and do it at a reasonable cost without promising a fully free ride. Just don't fund it the way the President proposed by raiding the money I saved away for my children's tuition.
- digikata 11y ago
  Part of 'funding' college for everybody isn't just giving them the money to go to college, it's making sure public institutions have enough capacity to handle those students. Instead of increasing grants, I think directly lowering tuition cost for public universities would force private universities to become more efficient and lower their tuition costs too... non-zero tuition makes for an interesting tension where public and private can compete in different ways (possibly making the system as a whole better than one with only, or mostly, free public colleges)
- hackuser 11y ago
  > Free community college is the way to go. Give everyone an opportunity to see if they can make it in college I might have agreed, but it turns out that such a path doesn't work well: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/upshot/college-for-the-masses.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/upshot/college-for-the-mas...
stephengillie 11y ago
One challenge that other nations face is the Community College system. In China, there's incredible competition to get into 4-year universities...mostly because the only other option is to have no tertiary education. In the USA we have low-cost options, including the 2-year degree and the transfer degree (2 years in CC, 2 at a Uni). We give people the option to only gain a small amount of education, where the burden on them is reduced. Also, I'm not sure what are the college enrollment rates for people above 40 in China. In the USA, reeducation is as simple as paying tuition.
pkaye 11y ago
There is the community college followed by state university combo. This can be quite affordable and help students adjust up to the university system if they were ill prepared in high school.
- hackuser 11y ago
  > There is the community college followed by state university combo. This can be quite affordable and help students adjust up to the university system if they were ill prepared in high school. I had thought the same, but read recently that it doesn't work out well in reality: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/upshot/college-for-the-masses.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/upshot/college-for-the-mas...

cjensen 11y ago

This has the same problem as most seemingly-good ideas: unintended consequences. If you give every US citizen who attends a US college $20K/year, think about what happens to popular universities with fixed numbers of slots like Stanford or UC Berkeley. They have every incentive to raise their fees by $20K/year. It would still improve the financial situation of students: the universities would probably use some of the extra funding to ensure they don't price out people who can't afford it. It just wouldn't improve it as much as you might anticipate. Second, consider who you are giving this money to: college graduates are the top earners in the US. Giving subsidies to those who will be richest is a deeply unfair idea. (Needs-based subsidies to help poorer families afford college and provide an opportunity to join the richer classes, by contrast, does make sense) Free community college is the way to go. Give everyone an opportunity to see if they can make it in college, and do it at a reasonable cost without promising a fully free ride. Just don't fund it the way the President proposed by raiding the money I saved away for my children's tuition.

digikata 11y ago
Part of 'funding' college for everybody isn't just giving them the money to go to college, it's making sure public institutions have enough capacity to handle those students. Instead of increasing grants, I think directly lowering tuition cost for public universities would force private universities to become more efficient and lower their tuition costs too... non-zero tuition makes for an interesting tension where public and private can compete in different ways (possibly making the system as a whole better than one with only, or mostly, free public colleges)
hackuser 11y ago
> Free community college is the way to go. Give everyone an opportunity to see if they can make it in college I might have agreed, but it turns out that such a path doesn't work well: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/upshot/college-for-the-masses.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/upshot/college-for-the-mas...

stephengillie 11y ago

One challenge that other nations face is the Community College system. In China, there's incredible competition to get into 4-year universities...mostly because the only other option is to have no tertiary education. In the USA we have low-cost options, including the 2-year degree and the transfer degree (2 years in CC, 2 at a Uni). We give people the option to only gain a small amount of education, where the burden on them is reduced. Also, I'm not sure what are the college enrollment rates for people above 40 in China. In the USA, reeducation is as simple as paying tuition.

pkaye 11y ago

There is the community college followed by state university combo. This can be quite affordable and help students adjust up to the university system if they were ill prepared in high school.

hackuser 11y ago
> There is the community college followed by state university combo. This can be quite affordable and help students adjust up to the university system if they were ill prepared in high school. I had thought the same, but read recently that it doesn't work out well in reality: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/upshot/college-for-the-masses.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/upshot/college-for-the-mas...