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This is a very self-righteous post. Do you ever eat out? Get coffee or drinks from restaurants? Use mayo/mustard packets? Eat frozen foods? They are all analog

This is a very self-righteous post. Do you ever eat out? Get coffee or drinks from restaurants? Use mayo/mustard packets? Eat frozen foods? They are all analogous. They're all conveniences that use disposable containers. And no-one is calling people a holes for eating Hungry Man.

mikegioia 11y ago
Do you eat two Hungry Man's every morning before work? It's not self-righteous and it's not analogous to your examples. People drink multiple coffees per day. People put Keurigs in the office and get used hundreds of times per day! Introducing waste for activities that happen as frequently as coffee drinking is why it's different.
- boyaka 11y ago
  I'm going to have to side with GP on this one. One Hungry Man package has got to be at least 4-5 of these cups, same goes with most to-go packaging. Waste is not the issue here. The problem the CEO is arguing about with DRM has to do with lock-in to only being able to use Keurig hardware and cups.
  - mikegioia 11y ago
    > Waste is not the issue here. I replied to worklogin's comment about lambasting the waste aspect as being self-righteous. I know the article is about DRM but we're having a tangential discussion about the waste...
- mmanfrin 11y ago
  Keurigs in the office are the most ridiculously wasteful things -- it wastes more time having everyone sit and wait for single-use pods to brew than for someone to just open up a stupid packet of grounds for a large carafe. I really can't understand why offices use keurig.
  - function_seven 11y ago
    Choice. In my office we have four types of coffee: Strong, Medium, Weak-as-hell, and Decaf. The coffee maker has one brew position and two extra hot plates. At any given time there are three carafes sitting on the hotplates, about 1/2 full. And they've been sitting there for a couple hours. When I want a cup of coffee, I smell the existing ones, toss whichever one is the most burnt, and brew a whole pot. Then I pour my one cup. Maybe one other person will have a cup and the rest gets tossed when someone else has to make room for their choice. I'm not saying I'd prefer a Keurig—I prefer drip-brewed to that—but I understand why an office would like to have one. Not having to wait for an entire pot to brew would be nice.
    - lobster_johnson 11y ago
      Tried a French press (aka cafetière or press pot)? You get them in many sizes, from large down to single-cup, they are super fast and easy to fill, and a lot of people think it produces better-tasting coffee than drip.
      - function_seven 11y ago
        Yeah, I have one actually. It's been a long time since I've used it, but I just might bring it to work. Thanks for the reminder.
  - boyaka 11y ago
    The two floor office building I worked at had three standard office coffee brewers as well as the espresso machines, while my school had the Keurig machine. The coffee brewers are indeed my favorite of the three, but I thought the espresso machines were gross quality compared to Keurig. I would argue the coffee brewers waste a lot more time, because they would be emptied quick (especially in the morning) and it takes a good 10 minutes or more to brew a pot, not to mention potentially some cleaning effort. There were several times where I would go to get some, it would be empty, somebody would be preparing another, and I'd have to wander around to the other brewers to check them or wait. I would still probably prefer those over Keurig, but I'm really not sure I can agree that the Keurig machines waste more time (although the usage of the machine at my school was pretty low).
manarth 11y ago
I do buy takeaway coffee, and at a burger place, I might use ketchup sachets if that's all they have. But for use at my home, I buy bottles of ketchup, not sachets. Given a choice, why would I choose to succumb to waste? It's like a company forcing me to use mayo sachets at home, rather than buying a bottle, because it makes them more money. That's not convenience, that's profiteering at the expense of the environment and the consumer.
anigbrowl 11y ago
Even the inventor of the Keurig machines is horrified by the waste involved, and admits he didn't think this through at the time he invented it. http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/waste-the-dark-side-of-the-new-coffee-craze/Content?oid=3687220 http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/waste-the-dark-side-of... And actually, I do think that people who consume heavily packaged foods all the time are being needlessly wasteful and should feel bad about it. Do you not see the fallacy in your argument, of replying to a complaint about people who generate this sort of waste on a regular basis with questions about whether the other poster ever does anything wasteful? Of course s/he does, we all do. But there's a huge difference between occasional and systematic inefficiency.
- boyaka 11y ago
  Horrified is an exaggeration. His statements shown here are at the end of the article: --- "People didn't think too much about that back then," he said, pausing a bit before he went on, "I feel kind of guilty. The world's changed in fifteen years." He told me he's proud he created something that's so well loved, but "hindsight's 20/20," he said. "I wouldn't do it now." --- He also says right before that that he didn't think about the waste issue at all, but I'm pretty doubtful. Engineers are taught to design for consumable/disposable parts and planned obsolescence, or at least to take them into consideration and compare them to material cost. These sorts of things can be a determining factor of whether a product can even come into existence or not. If he didn't know what he was doing, somebody working with him certainly did and pushed for it.

mikegioia 11y ago

Do you eat two Hungry Man's every morning before work? It's not self-righteous and it's not analogous to your examples. People drink multiple coffees per day. People put Keurigs in the office and get used hundreds of times per day! Introducing waste for activities that happen as frequently as coffee drinking is why it's different.

boyaka 11y ago
I'm going to have to side with GP on this one. One Hungry Man package has got to be at least 4-5 of these cups, same goes with most to-go packaging. Waste is not the issue here. The problem the CEO is arguing about with DRM has to do with lock-in to only being able to use Keurig hardware and cups.
- mikegioia 11y ago
  > Waste is not the issue here. I replied to worklogin's comment about lambasting the waste aspect as being self-righteous. I know the article is about DRM but we're having a tangential discussion about the waste...
mmanfrin 11y ago
Keurigs in the office are the most ridiculously wasteful things -- it wastes more time having everyone sit and wait for single-use pods to brew than for someone to just open up a stupid packet of grounds for a large carafe. I really can't understand why offices use keurig.
- function_seven 11y ago
  Choice. In my office we have four types of coffee: Strong, Medium, Weak-as-hell, and Decaf. The coffee maker has one brew position and two extra hot plates. At any given time there are three carafes sitting on the hotplates, about 1/2 full. And they've been sitting there for a couple hours. When I want a cup of coffee, I smell the existing ones, toss whichever one is the most burnt, and brew a whole pot. Then I pour my one cup. Maybe one other person will have a cup and the rest gets tossed when someone else has to make room for their choice. I'm not saying I'd prefer a Keurig—I prefer drip-brewed to that—but I understand why an office would like to have one. Not having to wait for an entire pot to brew would be nice.
  - lobster_johnson 11y ago
    Tried a French press (aka cafetière or press pot)? You get them in many sizes, from large down to single-cup, they are super fast and easy to fill, and a lot of people think it produces better-tasting coffee than drip.
    - function_seven 11y ago
      Yeah, I have one actually. It's been a long time since I've used it, but I just might bring it to work. Thanks for the reminder.
- boyaka 11y ago
  The two floor office building I worked at had three standard office coffee brewers as well as the espresso machines, while my school had the Keurig machine. The coffee brewers are indeed my favorite of the three, but I thought the espresso machines were gross quality compared to Keurig. I would argue the coffee brewers waste a lot more time, because they would be emptied quick (especially in the morning) and it takes a good 10 minutes or more to brew a pot, not to mention potentially some cleaning effort. There were several times where I would go to get some, it would be empty, somebody would be preparing another, and I'd have to wander around to the other brewers to check them or wait. I would still probably prefer those over Keurig, but I'm really not sure I can agree that the Keurig machines waste more time (although the usage of the machine at my school was pretty low).

manarth 11y ago

I do buy takeaway coffee, and at a burger place, I might use ketchup sachets if that's all they have. But for use at my home, I buy bottles of ketchup, not sachets. Given a choice, why would I choose to succumb to waste? It's like a company forcing me to use mayo sachets at home, rather than buying a bottle, because it makes them more money. That's not convenience, that's profiteering at the expense of the environment and the consumer.

anigbrowl 11y ago

Even the inventor of the Keurig machines is horrified by the waste involved, and admits he didn't think this through at the time he invented it. http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/waste-the-dark-side-of-the-new-coffee-craze/Content?oid=3687220 http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/waste-the-dark-side-of... And actually, I do think that people who consume heavily packaged foods all the time are being needlessly wasteful and should feel bad about it. Do you not see the fallacy in your argument, of replying to a complaint about people who generate this sort of waste on a regular basis with questions about whether the other poster ever does anything wasteful? Of course s/he does, we all do. But there's a huge difference between occasional and systematic inefficiency.

boyaka 11y ago
Horrified is an exaggeration. His statements shown here are at the end of the article: --- "People didn't think too much about that back then," he said, pausing a bit before he went on, "I feel kind of guilty. The world's changed in fifteen years." He told me he's proud he created something that's so well loved, but "hindsight's 20/20," he said. "I wouldn't do it now." --- He also says right before that that he didn't think about the waste issue at all, but I'm pretty doubtful. Engineers are taught to design for consumable/disposable parts and planned obsolescence, or at least to take them into consideration and compare them to material cost. These sorts of things can be a determining factor of whether a product can even come into existence or not. If he didn't know what he was doing, somebody working with him certainly did and pushed for it.