6 ms·

It's only "insane" by myopic Western/American standards. Look at the martial arts of Japan (Judo, Jujitsu) where to earn a black belt--which is traditionally no

It's only "insane" by myopic Western/American standards. Look at the martial arts of Japan (Judo, Jujitsu) where to earn a black belt--which is traditionally not the end of learning but merely symbolizes understanding of the basics--takes at least 10 years of dedicated study. Since martial arts began to be "Americanized" in the ~1980s, we now see black belts handed out to 8 year old children after a year or two of study (in fairness, Tae Kwon Do is the more common offender in that regard).

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
To be fair, the black belt implies only mastery of the standard practices of the discipline. It was originally the only belt awarded, and usually after a year or two of study. So nothing has fundamentally changed, except that now there are more degrees of belts.
- stephengillie 11y ago
  The further differentiation of belt rank is an Americanization of the art - it's equivalent to handing out Participant medals once every few months. When I learned, we had 9 ranks. Today, most studios have more than 27, so every form and throw and move has its own test and belt. It's maddening, but it's not unlike unit testing. (Should we apply principles of software development to martial arts education?)
  - coryl 11y ago
    This depends entirely on the art though. Arts like Tae Kwan Do or Karate have gone free for all, with many belt systems and rankings thanks to bastardization via profit motive. Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu however have been a lot more successful at keeping its bar high. In general, the skill level of a purple belt in any population of purple belts will fall in a tighter spectrum.
sp332 11y ago
It's insane because it covers a very narrow range of topics. We make people doctors after 8 years of study, only a few of which involve actual practice.
- ejstronge 11y ago
  I'm not sure if you're referring to medical education in the United States. If you are, individuals who ultimately care for patients must complete college (4 years), medical school (>4 years), and a residency program (3+ years). Thus, training to be a physician in the US would require at least 11 years, of which at least five (the last five) would involve extensive patient contact.
  - nqzero 11y ago
    technically, an undergrad degree isn't required, only a handful of courses whether you'd actually get admitted without one is an exercise for the reader
    - ejstronge 11y ago
      I'm not aware of any accredited, MD-granting US medical school that don't require an undergraduate degree prior to matriculation - do you have examples? There are accelerated bachelors+MD programs that high schoolers can apply to; these would shave off two years of overall training time. Notably, despite being accelerated programs, these grant a bachelors degree before program participants advance to medical school.
      - blue11 11y ago
        Technically, most US medical schools don't require an undergraduate degree. However, the amount of coursework required is so large (about 3 years) that it makes sense to do a little bit extra work and get the BS anyway. It's good to have a BS degree in case you don't get into medical school.
        11y ago
stephengillie 11y ago
Instead of forcing a person thru a decade of trials in the dojo, and promoting those that manage to learn how to pass the trials one way or another - we took the successful people and had them teach how to be successful. It's so much more efficient this way. It might still take 5 years of training for someone to have masterful control over her or his body, but so long as they obey and work hard, success will come eventually. These aren't the stone ages, where we'd grasp around in the dark for effective self-defense techniques. The road to success is long and hard, but it's well-paved and clearly marked today. We have maps, and also Search & Rescue standing by to catch people as they wander out of the Rye field of success.
- Red_Tarsius 11y ago
  It's a more powerful reinforcement schedule (B. F. Skinner) than the old "wait for years and _maybe_ get a payoff" way, making students more motivated and aware of their mistakes.
  - bkeroack 11y ago
    The real reason is that giving a grade promotion to a young child every few weeks keeps them entertained and happy, which keeps their parents happy and therefore ensures that tuition money keeps coming in and new students continue to sign up. The integrity of the art is almost entirely irrelevant to most of these McDojo-style martial arts schools.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

To be fair, the black belt implies only mastery of the standard practices of the discipline. It was originally the only belt awarded, and usually after a year or two of study. So nothing has fundamentally changed, except that now there are more degrees of belts.

stephengillie 11y ago
The further differentiation of belt rank is an Americanization of the art - it's equivalent to handing out Participant medals once every few months. When I learned, we had 9 ranks. Today, most studios have more than 27, so every form and throw and move has its own test and belt. It's maddening, but it's not unlike unit testing. (Should we apply principles of software development to martial arts education?)
- coryl 11y ago
  This depends entirely on the art though. Arts like Tae Kwan Do or Karate have gone free for all, with many belt systems and rankings thanks to bastardization via profit motive. Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu however have been a lot more successful at keeping its bar high. In general, the skill level of a purple belt in any population of purple belts will fall in a tighter spectrum.

sp332 11y ago

It's insane because it covers a very narrow range of topics. We make people doctors after 8 years of study, only a few of which involve actual practice.

ejstronge 11y ago
I'm not sure if you're referring to medical education in the United States. If you are, individuals who ultimately care for patients must complete college (4 years), medical school (>4 years), and a residency program (3+ years). Thus, training to be a physician in the US would require at least 11 years, of which at least five (the last five) would involve extensive patient contact.
- nqzero 11y ago
  technically, an undergrad degree isn't required, only a handful of courses whether you'd actually get admitted without one is an exercise for the reader
  - ejstronge 11y ago
    I'm not aware of any accredited, MD-granting US medical school that don't require an undergraduate degree prior to matriculation - do you have examples? There are accelerated bachelors+MD programs that high schoolers can apply to; these would shave off two years of overall training time. Notably, despite being accelerated programs, these grant a bachelors degree before program participants advance to medical school.
    - blue11 11y ago
      Technically, most US medical schools don't require an undergraduate degree. However, the amount of coursework required is so large (about 3 years) that it makes sense to do a little bit extra work and get the BS anyway. It's good to have a BS degree in case you don't get into medical school.
      - 11y ago

stephengillie 11y ago

Instead of forcing a person thru a decade of trials in the dojo, and promoting those that manage to learn how to pass the trials one way or another - we took the successful people and had them teach how to be successful. It's so much more efficient this way. It might still take 5 years of training for someone to have masterful control over her or his body, but so long as they obey and work hard, success will come eventually. These aren't the stone ages, where we'd grasp around in the dark for effective self-defense techniques. The road to success is long and hard, but it's well-paved and clearly marked today. We have maps, and also Search & Rescue standing by to catch people as they wander out of the Rye field of success.

Red_Tarsius 11y ago
It's a more powerful reinforcement schedule (B. F. Skinner) than the old "wait for years and _maybe_ get a payoff" way, making students more motivated and aware of their mistakes.
- bkeroack 11y ago
  The real reason is that giving a grade promotion to a young child every few weeks keeps them entertained and happy, which keeps their parents happy and therefore ensures that tuition money keeps coming in and new students continue to sign up. The integrity of the art is almost entirely irrelevant to most of these McDojo-style martial arts schools.