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That's because they technically are alcoholics. One small "fix" every day makes it unnecessary to binge like it's the last time (because it isn't).

by jotm 12y ago

DanBC 12y ago
Alcoholism is not "a drink a day". http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 > Alcohol dependence is characterised by craving, tolerance, a preoccupation with alcohol and continued drinking in spite of harmful consequences (for example, liver disease or depression caused by drinking). [...] > Alcohol dependence affects 4% of people aged between 16 and 65 in England (6% of men and 2% of women), and over 24% of the English population (33% of men and 16% of women) consume alcohol in a way that is potentially or actually harmful to their health or well-being. Notice how the rates of harmful drinking are much larger than rates for dependant drinking. A person who drinks more than 15 units a day gets community based (outpatient, at home) assisted withdrawal. To get in-patient medical withdrawal a person needs to be drinking 30 units a day. 1 litre of spirits at 40% ABV is 40 units.
- mod 12y ago
  Far less scientific, and possibly untrue, but I've heard it described as the difference in having a drink every day, and needing a drink a day. If you can't skip that one drink, you've got a problem. (My brother likes to quote that. I think it keeps him believing he's not an alcoholic, which he definitely is. He drinks very heavily 2-4 nights per week, and skips the other nights.)
- jotm 12y ago
  Yeah, the Russians define alcoholism as 0.5L of vodka a day. How convenient. Doesn't change the fact that habitual drinking is alcoholism and can easily lead to dangerous drinking (1 glass of wine a day may not be dangerous, but it makes it very easy to drink "a bit" more, especially when you're stressed or depressed).
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Habitual drinking is not alcoholism. It trivialises a serious illness when you mistakenly describe one glass of wine per day as alcoholism. No one is dependant on one glass of wine a day.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    >Doesn't change the fact that habitual drinking is alcoholism Alcoholism is a specific thing. Can't be defined however we want it. If it doesn't have the withdrawal symptoms and negative health effects it's not alcoholim, even if people are drinking each day. It's not very effective to jugde habitual drinking in a different cultures (e.g. continental Europe, a french farmer drinking a glass or two a day in a family dinner / fiest of friends / coffee shop context) with experiences from your own cultural environment (some suburban housewive etc drinking everyday on the border of alcoholism).
coldtea 12y ago
If you have no negative effects and casually live up to 80 and 90, as these people do, then they might as well be junkies...
- jotm 12y ago
  True, but that requires great self control. If you drink a bit more every day, you go into mental retardation territory and then you become more stupid, depressed and so addicted you hate yourself.
stephengillie 12y ago
What's the downside of addiction, again? This is starting to sound like the Melange-Spice from Dune.
- jotm 12y ago
  Lowered intelligence, lowered reflexes, the need to spend money on alcohol (unless you can drink the bottom end shit), feeling down, depressed or anxious during withdrawal if you miraculously quit (several weeks at least).
  - stephengillie 12y ago
    Oh, you're talking about alcohol addiction. I meant addiction in general. You're mostly listing negative side effects of excess consumption. What if you could mitigate those side effects, or if the addictive substance had no negative side effects?
    - jotm 12y ago
      Then it would be a good addiction, like caffeine. I am very biased against alcohol due to some very bad experience with it. I do see the positive effects from low dosage consumption - relaxation, better sleep, a clearer mind. All of which can be achieved with meditation or some other meds like Phenibut or even Xanax.

That's because they technically are alcoholics. One small "fix" every day makes it unnecessary to binge like it's the last time (because it isn't).

by jotm 12y ago

That's because they technically are alcoholics. One small "fix" every day makes it unnecessary to binge like it's the last time (because it isn't).

DanBC 12y ago

Alcoholism is not "a drink a day". http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 > Alcohol dependence is characterised by craving, tolerance, a preoccupation with alcohol and continued drinking in spite of harmful consequences (for example, liver disease or depression caused by drinking). [...] > Alcohol dependence affects 4% of people aged between 16 and 65 in England (6% of men and 2% of women), and over 24% of the English population (33% of men and 16% of women) consume alcohol in a way that is potentially or actually harmful to their health or well-being. Notice how the rates of harmful drinking are much larger than rates for dependant drinking. A person who drinks more than 15 units a day gets community based (outpatient, at home) assisted withdrawal. To get in-patient medical withdrawal a person needs to be drinking 30 units a day. 1 litre of spirits at 40% ABV is 40 units.

mod 12y ago
Far less scientific, and possibly untrue, but I've heard it described as the difference in having a drink every day, and needing a drink a day. If you can't skip that one drink, you've got a problem. (My brother likes to quote that. I think it keeps him believing he's not an alcoholic, which he definitely is. He drinks very heavily 2-4 nights per week, and skips the other nights.)
jotm 12y ago
Yeah, the Russians define alcoholism as 0.5L of vodka a day. How convenient. Doesn't change the fact that habitual drinking is alcoholism and can easily lead to dangerous drinking (1 glass of wine a day may not be dangerous, but it makes it very easy to drink "a bit" more, especially when you're stressed or depressed).
- DanBC 12y ago
  Habitual drinking is not alcoholism. It trivialises a serious illness when you mistakenly describe one glass of wine per day as alcoholism. No one is dependant on one glass of wine a day.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >Doesn't change the fact that habitual drinking is alcoholism Alcoholism is a specific thing. Can't be defined however we want it. If it doesn't have the withdrawal symptoms and negative health effects it's not alcoholim, even if people are drinking each day. It's not very effective to jugde habitual drinking in a different cultures (e.g. continental Europe, a french farmer drinking a glass or two a day in a family dinner / fiest of friends / coffee shop context) with experiences from your own cultural environment (some suburban housewive etc drinking everyday on the border of alcoholism).

coldtea 12y ago

If you have no negative effects and casually live up to 80 and 90, as these people do, then they might as well be junkies...

jotm 12y ago
True, but that requires great self control. If you drink a bit more every day, you go into mental retardation territory and then you become more stupid, depressed and so addicted you hate yourself.

stephengillie 12y ago

What's the downside of addiction, again? This is starting to sound like the Melange-Spice from Dune.

jotm 12y ago
Lowered intelligence, lowered reflexes, the need to spend money on alcohol (unless you can drink the bottom end shit), feeling down, depressed or anxious during withdrawal if you miraculously quit (several weeks at least).
- stephengillie 12y ago
  Oh, you're talking about alcohol addiction. I meant addiction in general. You're mostly listing negative side effects of excess consumption. What if you could mitigate those side effects, or if the addictive substance had no negative side effects?
  - jotm 12y ago
    Then it would be a good addiction, like caffeine. I am very biased against alcohol due to some very bad experience with it. I do see the positive effects from low dosage consumption - relaxation, better sleep, a clearer mind. All of which can be achieved with meditation or some other meds like Phenibut or even Xanax.