7 ms·

I really appreciate the resources provided. But I'm not a fan of the website suggesting that I want/need privacy because I have something to hide.

by juanito 12y ago

01Michael10 12y ago
Well, we all have something to hide.
- mhurron 12y ago
  Exactly. The phrase 'something to hide' has become synonymous with 'something illegal' or 'you're doing something wrong', when in reality everyone has things they simply wish to keep private.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    'I have something to keep private' isn't as punchy. Also it doesn't go far enough. 'My entire life is private' is closer. Of course my public interactions aren't AS private; but still largely private (its nobody's business what laundry detergent I buy at the public supermarket).
    - mhurron 12y ago
      I wasn't talking about the title of the article, but in general. Those in support of these surveillance programs have worked hard to conflate 'something to hide' with 'something illegal' so that most people will go along with them as they have 'nothing illegal to hide.'
      - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        Agreed. Its the doublespeak used by those trying to make ubiquitous surveillance commonplace.
egwynn 12y ago
Third parties are happy to extract value from data you share. Even if you’re not doing anything wrong, controlling that information has an impact. The way I see it, saying “I have something to hide” is, WLOG, the same as saying “I want to control what gets shared with whom.” EDIT: If the site author is reading this, tip #6 misspells ‘diaspora’ as ‘dispoara’.
- pierreozoux 12y ago
  Thanks, it is now corrected.
  - peeters 12y ago
    Also, "gonvernment"
9point6 12y ago
Passwords & credit card details are something to hide
pierreozoux 12y ago
The name is provacative, it is on purpose. A better phrase could have been, "we, as a society, have things to hide from companies and government", but it was too long :)
- mpobrien 12y ago
  Isn't that still missing the point? We don't want to be spied on period, whether there are things to hide or not.
  - kevin_thibedeau 12y ago
    It is the response to the argument that "If you don't have something to hide, you shouldn't mind having your rights trampled on" with the attendant presumption that anyone with something to hide must be a criminal or a T7t.
    - Roodgorf 12y ago
      T7t? I'm not familiar with that term and my Google-fu is apparently not strong enough.
      - SloopJon 12y ago
        Like i18n or l10n: nine-letter word, starts and ends with "t", rhymes with "bogey man." Edit: and no, I've never seen this particular abbreviation.
      - pierreozoux 12y ago
        Terrorist (It's like i18n stands for internationalization, )
  - abandonliberty 12y ago
    We need to get comfortable with the fact that having things to hide does not make us guilty, criminal, or unethical. Whether it's dick pictures, political views, or associations with questionable NSA targeted groups like UNICEF[1]. I argue that it's our responsibility to hide things to support freedom and democracy. http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/05/22/nsa_gchq_spying_on_humanitarian_groups_like_unicef_medecins_du_monde.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/05/22/nsa_gchq_...
enraged_camel 12y ago
Care to elaborate on the details of your most recent sexually-intimate encounter? ... That's what I thought. Everyone has something they don't want others to know.
- cyphunk 12y ago
  I hear this response often to the "i have nothing to hide" camp. Feels to me like we would have something better to say. Pointing to one thing most clearly wish to hide is just not a good comparison with the digital breadcrumbs we throw around. They dont compare. We have all come to accept that some people are able to know when you walk down the street past their store, if they wish. The bus driving is free to mentally note when you get off and on the bus. Telling people to wear masks when walking outside because our daily routine is as equally private as our sex lives, just does not equate. At times I feel this line of argument belittles everyone and their opinions in debate.
  - goodcanadian 12y ago
    OK. Supposedly,I have no expectation of privacy when I am out in public. Certainly, anyone could see me go into a particular store. That is not the same as following me around everywhere and noting down everything I am doing. Most people would call that stalking. So what if I have nothing to hide? It is still creepy and inappropriate. This is my main objection to widespread surveillance cameras and an analogous argument applies to my online activity.
    - nitrogen 12y ago
      As I've argued before, small, isolated public events become extremely private descriptions of our lives when aggregated.
- tedunangst 12y ago
  Is there no distinction between hiding something and choosing not to discuss it?
- saraid216 12y ago
ndarilek 12y ago
All of the below examples aside, why not? Why should your wanting to hide something be any more sinister than what you want for dinner? And if you yourself don't have anything to hide, awesome. Is it not worth protecting my right to hide things should I want or need to? There are many reasons to desire privacy other than wanting or needing to hide something. The existence of this site does not invalidate those. But one great technique, when someone holds a rhetorical gun to your head, is to just reach up and pluck out the bullets, reclaiming and sanitizing the opposition argument. "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." "Guess what, I do have things to hide, and that shouldn't get stigmatized."
- goodcanadian 12y ago
  If you don't think I have anything to hide, why are you so intent on looking?
- tertius 12y ago
  "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." "Guess what, I do have things to hide, and that shouldn't get stigmatized." The argument isn't about hiding things, it's about the right to privacy. The right exists whether you have something to hide or not or whether you like to swim or anything else that irrelevant. And if you don't "have anything to hide" your right doesn't automagically go away.
  - ascagnel_ 12y ago
    I disagree with the phrasing -- it shouldn't be about what you want to hide, it should be about what you want to show. I always go back to the same argument: if you're OK with the government recording absolutely everything, does that include the bedroom? The bathroom? I'm not doing anything illegal in there, but it's definitely not something I'd be OK with sharing with the world at large.

I really appreciate the resources provided. But I'm not a fan of the website suggesting that I want/need privacy because I have something to hide.

by juanito 12y ago

I really appreciate the resources provided. But I'm not a fan of the website suggesting that I want/need privacy because I have something to hide.

01Michael10 12y ago

Well, we all have something to hide.

mhurron 12y ago
Exactly. The phrase 'something to hide' has become synonymous with 'something illegal' or 'you're doing something wrong', when in reality everyone has things they simply wish to keep private.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  'I have something to keep private' isn't as punchy. Also it doesn't go far enough. 'My entire life is private' is closer. Of course my public interactions aren't AS private; but still largely private (its nobody's business what laundry detergent I buy at the public supermarket).
  - mhurron 12y ago
    I wasn't talking about the title of the article, but in general. Those in support of these surveillance programs have worked hard to conflate 'something to hide' with 'something illegal' so that most people will go along with them as they have 'nothing illegal to hide.'
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      Agreed. Its the doublespeak used by those trying to make ubiquitous surveillance commonplace.

egwynn 12y ago

Third parties are happy to extract value from data you share. Even if you’re not doing anything wrong, controlling that information has an impact. The way I see it, saying “I have something to hide” is, WLOG, the same as saying “I want to control what gets shared with whom.” EDIT: If the site author is reading this, tip #6 misspells ‘diaspora’ as ‘dispoara’.

pierreozoux 12y ago
Thanks, it is now corrected.
- peeters 12y ago
  Also, "gonvernment"

9point6 12y ago

Passwords & credit card details are something to hide

pierreozoux 12y ago

The name is provacative, it is on purpose. A better phrase could have been, "we, as a society, have things to hide from companies and government", but it was too long :)

mpobrien 12y ago
Isn't that still missing the point? We don't want to be spied on period, whether there are things to hide or not.
- kevin_thibedeau 12y ago
  It is the response to the argument that "If you don't have something to hide, you shouldn't mind having your rights trampled on" with the attendant presumption that anyone with something to hide must be a criminal or a T7t.
  - Roodgorf 12y ago
    T7t? I'm not familiar with that term and my Google-fu is apparently not strong enough.
    - SloopJon 12y ago
      Like i18n or l10n: nine-letter word, starts and ends with "t", rhymes with "bogey man." Edit: and no, I've never seen this particular abbreviation.
    - pierreozoux 12y ago
      Terrorist (It's like i18n stands for internationalization, )
- abandonliberty 12y ago
  We need to get comfortable with the fact that having things to hide does not make us guilty, criminal, or unethical. Whether it's dick pictures, political views, or associations with questionable NSA targeted groups like UNICEF[1]. I argue that it's our responsibility to hide things to support freedom and democracy. http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/05/22/nsa_gchq_spying_on_humanitarian_groups_like_unicef_medecins_du_monde.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/05/22/nsa_gchq_...

enraged_camel 12y ago

Care to elaborate on the details of your most recent sexually-intimate encounter? ... That's what I thought. Everyone has something they don't want others to know.

cyphunk 12y ago
I hear this response often to the "i have nothing to hide" camp. Feels to me like we would have something better to say. Pointing to one thing most clearly wish to hide is just not a good comparison with the digital breadcrumbs we throw around. They dont compare. We have all come to accept that some people are able to know when you walk down the street past their store, if they wish. The bus driving is free to mentally note when you get off and on the bus. Telling people to wear masks when walking outside because our daily routine is as equally private as our sex lives, just does not equate. At times I feel this line of argument belittles everyone and their opinions in debate.
- goodcanadian 12y ago
  OK. Supposedly,I have no expectation of privacy when I am out in public. Certainly, anyone could see me go into a particular store. That is not the same as following me around everywhere and noting down everything I am doing. Most people would call that stalking. So what if I have nothing to hide? It is still creepy and inappropriate. This is my main objection to widespread surveillance cameras and an analogous argument applies to my online activity.
  - nitrogen 12y ago
    As I've argued before, small, isolated public events become extremely private descriptions of our lives when aggregated.
tedunangst 12y ago
Is there no distinction between hiding something and choosing not to discuss it?
saraid216 12y ago

ndarilek 12y ago

All of the below examples aside, why not? Why should your wanting to hide something be any more sinister than what you want for dinner? And if you yourself don't have anything to hide, awesome. Is it not worth protecting my right to hide things should I want or need to? There are many reasons to desire privacy other than wanting or needing to hide something. The existence of this site does not invalidate those. But one great technique, when someone holds a rhetorical gun to your head, is to just reach up and pluck out the bullets, reclaiming and sanitizing the opposition argument. "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." "Guess what, I do have things to hide, and that shouldn't get stigmatized."

goodcanadian 12y ago
If you don't think I have anything to hide, why are you so intent on looking?
tertius 12y ago
"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." "Guess what, I do have things to hide, and that shouldn't get stigmatized." The argument isn't about hiding things, it's about the right to privacy. The right exists whether you have something to hide or not or whether you like to swim or anything else that irrelevant. And if you don't "have anything to hide" your right doesn't automagically go away.
- ascagnel_ 12y ago
  I disagree with the phrasing -- it shouldn't be about what you want to hide, it should be about what you want to show. I always go back to the same argument: if you're OK with the government recording absolutely everything, does that include the bedroom? The bathroom? I'm not doing anything illegal in there, but it's definitely not something I'd be OK with sharing with the world at large.