5 ms·

I don't know if that's the case in US or Western Europe, but that's exactly what iPhone does here in Eastern Europe. It's a "hey look at me, I'm rich" signal m

by glogla 12y ago

I don't know if that's the case in US or Western Europe, but that's exactly what iPhone does here in Eastern Europe. It's a "hey look at me, I'm rich" signal more than anything. Most people can't afford it, given that there are no carrier subsidies in Europe and current generation iPhone costs between two and four monthly wages, depending on which part of Eastern Europe you are in. It can also fall and break at any moment, making it rather risky thing to own - you can't just have to afford it once, you have to afford it repeatedly. I guess Apple learned it's lesson here and is now trying to do the same in the US with different device.

ebbv 12y ago
Well the Apple Watch doesn't cost 2-4 months wage for most US workers. At $500, even for someone on minimum wage it's not even 1 month wage after taxes. You have to get a pretty fancy one before it starts getting expensive. Wealthy people DO use really expensive watches to show off, and the Apple Watch Edition serves that purpose. But for most watch buyers in the US, their watch is more of a fashion statement than a wealth statement. It's saying "Look at my great taste and sense of style." That's part of what the iPhone and MacBooks do in the US, and that's the goal of the Apple Watch here as well. I think overall, though, the Apple Watch is failing at that goal in the US. Most people I know think it's only slightly less dorky and useless than Google Glass.
- sremani 12y ago
  $10,000 - $17,000 is easily someones 4 month wage. So AppleWatch high-end is definitely something that is, look I am rich device.
  - ebbv 12y ago
    Yes, the Edition is. And I said exactly that in my comment if you bothered to read it before responding.
  - skywhopper 12y ago
    As are all gold watches. Apple's challenge in creating the Apple Watch is that a lot of their best customers already have fancy show-offy watches they prefer to wear, and for Apple to crack that market, they have to produce a version of Apple Watch for people who won't go out in public wearing a watch that costs less than $10,000. Yes, it's ugly, but even $17,000 is relatively cheap in the world of watches for the top 1%.
- Hobotron1 12y ago
  > At $500, even for someone on minimum wage it's not even 1 month wage after taxes. If you ignore rent, utilities, food, that unexpected medical emergency, this months car repairs because you can't get to work without it, and you can't afford to save up to get a nicer car that doesn't always break down because of these constant repairs...
  - ebbv 12y ago
    Dude. Come on. Reading comprehension. We were talking about cost vs. total monthly wages. Not about whether it's affordable for people on minimum wage. Obviously nothing is affordable on minimum wage.
    - Hobotron1 12y ago
      Dude. Bro. Come on. That's a retarded metric to use. Go sit on a dick and and walk into traffic.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- dionidium 12y ago
  At $500, even for someone on minimum wage it's not even 1 month wage after taxes. You have to get a pretty fancy one before it starts getting expensive. This betrays a misunderstanding of how disposable income works. For monthly wages below some n (where is n is determined by the cost of living in your city), a person's disposable income is effectively $0. In other words, someone making $1200/month doesn't have twice as much disposable income as somebody making $0/month. They both have zero disposable income.
  - ebbv 12y ago
    Dude. I'm not saying they have disposable income. We were just comparing the price vs. average person's monthly income. C'mon. Reading comprehension.
    - dionidium 12y ago
      What could "before it starts getting expensive" possibly mean other than how I interpreted it?
      - ebbv 12y ago
        For a watch, $500 is not that expensive. $10,000 definitely is. Somewhere in-between there probably is too. There's a lot of not expensive things that people on minimum wage can't afford because it's not a living wage.
bumbledraven 12y ago
> current generation iPhone costs between two and four monthly wages You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. "wage: a fixed regular payment, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee, especially to a manual or unskilled worker." According to http://www.reinisfischer.com/average-salary-european-union-2014 http://www.reinisfischer.com/average-salary-european-union-2..., minimum wage in Europe -- well, EU at least -- ranges from ~230 USD in Bulgaria to ~2600 USD in Luxembourg. An unlocked iPhone 6 costs ~650 USD. So your lower bound is actually an upper bound: it's actually between 4 days and 2 months of minumum wages.
- poloniculmov 12y ago
  He's talking about Eastern Europe.
  - bumbledraven 12y ago
    Thanks for the correction. However, the initial statement still seems off. According to http://www.ceepharma.com/data/2/average-monthly-gross-wage-in-central-and-eastern-europe-forecasts-2014-2017 http://www.ceepharma.com/data/2/average-monthly-gross-wage-i..., the average wage (I couldn't find stats on minimum wage) in Eastern Europe ranges from ~250 USD in Ukraine to ~1050 USD in Czech Republic, so the cost of a ~650 USD iPhone is between 2.5 weeks and 2.5 months of wages.
    - poloniculmov 12y ago
      http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Minimum_wage_statistics http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/..., here are the minimum wages in Europe. In Romania, the cheapest iPhone 6 is 736 euro, which is 4.5 times more than the minimum salary after tax or 2 times more than the average salary. But the average salary is skewed because we have a big income disparity. There are a few fields, like IT, that earn way more than the other fields. Now, depending on his location, he'll have a different definition of Eastern Europe. If you're west of Romania, you'll probably say you're in Central Europe, that's usually the geographic definition. From what I can understand, for many people outside Europe, Eastern Europe means countries that were in the URSS' sphere of influence.
vilmosi 12y ago
"no carrier subsidies in Europe" What?! Lies! I always got my phone on contract, there's tons of choices! I agree about "Look at me, I'm rich!" part though.

by glogla 12y ago

ebbv 12y ago

Well the Apple Watch doesn't cost 2-4 months wage for most US workers. At $500, even for someone on minimum wage it's not even 1 month wage after taxes. You have to get a pretty fancy one before it starts getting expensive. Wealthy people DO use really expensive watches to show off, and the Apple Watch Edition serves that purpose. But for most watch buyers in the US, their watch is more of a fashion statement than a wealth statement. It's saying "Look at my great taste and sense of style." That's part of what the iPhone and MacBooks do in the US, and that's the goal of the Apple Watch here as well. I think overall, though, the Apple Watch is failing at that goal in the US. Most people I know think it's only slightly less dorky and useless than Google Glass.

sremani 12y ago
$10,000 - $17,000 is easily someones 4 month wage. So AppleWatch high-end is definitely something that is, look I am rich device.
- ebbv 12y ago
  Yes, the Edition is. And I said exactly that in my comment if you bothered to read it before responding.
- skywhopper 12y ago
  As are all gold watches. Apple's challenge in creating the Apple Watch is that a lot of their best customers already have fancy show-offy watches they prefer to wear, and for Apple to crack that market, they have to produce a version of Apple Watch for people who won't go out in public wearing a watch that costs less than $10,000. Yes, it's ugly, but even $17,000 is relatively cheap in the world of watches for the top 1%.
Hobotron1 12y ago
> At $500, even for someone on minimum wage it's not even 1 month wage after taxes. If you ignore rent, utilities, food, that unexpected medical emergency, this months car repairs because you can't get to work without it, and you can't afford to save up to get a nicer car that doesn't always break down because of these constant repairs...
- ebbv 12y ago
  Dude. Come on. Reading comprehension. We were talking about cost vs. total monthly wages. Not about whether it's affordable for people on minimum wage. Obviously nothing is affordable on minimum wage.
  - Hobotron1 12y ago
    Dude. Bro. Come on. That's a retarded metric to use. Go sit on a dick and and walk into traffic.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dionidium 12y ago
At $500, even for someone on minimum wage it's not even 1 month wage after taxes. You have to get a pretty fancy one before it starts getting expensive. This betrays a misunderstanding of how disposable income works. For monthly wages below some n (where is n is determined by the cost of living in your city), a person's disposable income is effectively $0. In other words, someone making $1200/month doesn't have twice as much disposable income as somebody making $0/month. They both have zero disposable income.
- ebbv 12y ago
  Dude. I'm not saying they have disposable income. We were just comparing the price vs. average person's monthly income. C'mon. Reading comprehension.
  - dionidium 12y ago
    What could "before it starts getting expensive" possibly mean other than how I interpreted it?
    - ebbv 12y ago
      For a watch, $500 is not that expensive. $10,000 definitely is. Somewhere in-between there probably is too. There's a lot of not expensive things that people on minimum wage can't afford because it's not a living wage.

bumbledraven 12y ago

> current generation iPhone costs between two and four monthly wages You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. "wage: a fixed regular payment, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee, especially to a manual or unskilled worker." According to http://www.reinisfischer.com/average-salary-european-union-2014 http://www.reinisfischer.com/average-salary-european-union-2..., minimum wage in Europe -- well, EU at least -- ranges from ~230 USD in Bulgaria to ~2600 USD in Luxembourg. An unlocked iPhone 6 costs ~650 USD. So your lower bound is actually an upper bound: it's actually between 4 days and 2 months of minumum wages.

poloniculmov 12y ago
He's talking about Eastern Europe.
- bumbledraven 12y ago
  Thanks for the correction. However, the initial statement still seems off. According to http://www.ceepharma.com/data/2/average-monthly-gross-wage-in-central-and-eastern-europe-forecasts-2014-2017 http://www.ceepharma.com/data/2/average-monthly-gross-wage-i..., the average wage (I couldn't find stats on minimum wage) in Eastern Europe ranges from ~250 USD in Ukraine to ~1050 USD in Czech Republic, so the cost of a ~650 USD iPhone is between 2.5 weeks and 2.5 months of wages.
  - poloniculmov 12y ago
    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Minimum_wage_statistics http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/..., here are the minimum wages in Europe. In Romania, the cheapest iPhone 6 is 736 euro, which is 4.5 times more than the minimum salary after tax or 2 times more than the average salary. But the average salary is skewed because we have a big income disparity. There are a few fields, like IT, that earn way more than the other fields. Now, depending on his location, he'll have a different definition of Eastern Europe. If you're west of Romania, you'll probably say you're in Central Europe, that's usually the geographic definition. From what I can understand, for many people outside Europe, Eastern Europe means countries that were in the URSS' sphere of influence.

vilmosi 12y ago

"no carrier subsidies in Europe" What?! Lies! I always got my phone on contract, there's tons of choices! I agree about "Look at me, I'm rich!" part though.