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Bill C-51 passes in House of Commons
- Canada 11y ago> The new disruption powers could permit CSIS to thwart travel plans, cancel bank transactions and covertly interfere with radical websites. The bill says CSIS needs "reasonable grounds to believe" a security threat exists before taking measures to disrupt it. It requires CSIS to get a court order whenever its proposed disruption violates the charter of rights or breaches Canadian law in any way. CSIS can now cancel our flights, freeze our bank accounts, and take down our web sites without any due process whatsoever, but don't worry, they need to get a secret court order against us in order to WAIVE our charter rights! Encouraging someone to commit a terrorist act is now a crime. I expect this will be a very popular law for authorities use their new powers to exempt themselves from. I'll be surprised if we make it a whole year before this is abused for some completely unrelated purpose such as harassing the administrations critics. This will have real consequences for freedom of speech online. CSIS has been operating a huge mass surveillance system for a very long time, and today it just grew legal teeth.
- BuildTheRobots 11y ago> "reasonable grounds to believe" (approx) 57% of Americans believe in the devil, so this provision in the bill doesn't really fill me with any confidence :(
- totony 11y agoThat is democracy. 57>50
- Everlag 11y ago'The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.' - Section 1, Charter of Rights and Freedoms I like how a single crooked judge can now covertly determine what is a free and democratic society. I mean, this was the case before but it had to happen in the public which had some sense of accountability.
- dblohm7 11y agoNot exactly. The criteria for what constitutes a reasonable limit was established by the Supreme Court of Canada in 1986. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Oakes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Oakes
- MCRed 11y agoI don't know about Canada, but in the USA precedent is only applicable if it's brought up and the judge decides its relevant. In non-contested situations (eg: only the government is before the court, there is no opposition attorney) there would be no reason to bring up precedents that don't support the governments position. This is part of the reason secret courts are so fundamentally wrong.
- raquo 11y agoAnd blocking a road in protest is now terrorism ("interference with infrastructure"). With the current government Canada is going downhill real fast. Sad, because it's one of the most socially developed countries.
- Mikeb85 11y agoDon't worry, we'll get rid of Harper soon enough. Alberta just dumped a 44-year dynasty, and this is the Conservatives' home ground. Most Canadians are sick of him.
- ZanyProgrammer 11y agoUnless the Libs and NDP are willing to join a coalition, I dont see how that would happen (or one party gains a majority). That's the problem with two opposition parties, both of whom are centre left/left (ish).
- guiomie 11y agoIn my opinion, Trudeau isn't overrated and will get enough votes for a minority or a majority.
- Spooks 11y agoSorry if I am wrong, but doesn't he have very little experience in politics? And didn't he partially support bill C-51
- m_alexgr 11y agoC51 voting split down party lines. Cons & Libs for, NDP, Greens and Independent against. Many MPs abstained. https://openparliament.ca/votes/41-2/395/ https://openparliament.ca/votes/41-2/395/
- guiomie 11y agoIf I recall his dad didn't have much experience either. I personally don't believe career politician make the best politician.
- dorfsmay 11y agoThat's unbelievable, considering how much push back there has been... Can anything be done to influence the senate?
- giarc 11y agoThis bill was backed by both the cons and the liberals, not sure the senate will sway to much.
- dorfsmay 11y agoI have not met one single person who thought Bill C-51 was a good idea. I know we can't govern by conscensus, but I think that when there is so much controversy around a law there should be a referendum, seems to work for Switzerland.
- Lorento 11y agoWhy not an election? If voters still vote for both parties, then there isn't really controversy, it's just the people you know who share your ideas.
- dorfsmay 11y agoBecause I feel that we would constantly be in the middle of an election. I don't agree 100% with any party. This issue is a good example, lots of people who would vote PC or Liberal in an election but would probably vote agaisnt Bill C-51 in a referendum.
- alfredxing 11y agoIt's really quite rare that the Senate will reject a bill that has passed in the House, seeing as members of the Senate are appointed by the elected parties.
- dorfsmay 11y agoThere is now a petition to try to influence the senate: https://stopc51.ca/ https://stopc51.ca/
- smuser90 11y ago"It also increases the exchange of federal security information, broadens no-fly list powers and creates a new criminal offence of encouraging someone to carry out a terrorist attack"... Unless you're an agent of the state, in which case its terrorism hunting
- curiously 11y agosome mentally ill guy goes crazy, President of Canada hides in closet, patriot act cloned.
- irixusr 11y agoSadly, upgraded.
- yarrel 11y agoIt was ready before that.
- Naga 11y agoCanada doesn't have a President. Stephen Harper is the Prime Minister and Head of Government. Elizabeth II is the Head of State.
- dorfsmay 11y agoIn theory... When was the last time that the monarch of the Governor General dissolved the assembly?
- curiously 11y agoshe didn't do jack shit, spent tax dollars buying a new Gucci bag and vacationing in luxury, showing up on Remembrance Day pretending to be the queen and getting paid for it, she couldn't be bothered with actual work.
- guiomie 11y agoShe actually did it in 2008.
- dorfsmay 11y agoThe GG did not stepped in, did not dissolve the assembly. She was asked to make a decision, and sided with the government agaisnt the will of the majority of elected representative. We will never know if she tried to do the right thing to save us from an election (saving money), or just tried not to make waves. We will never know what what would have been the result of an election had it happened in this particular condition.
- fmela 11y agoFrance has also just passed measures giving the government broad powers of surveillance. Of course, they are also trying to provide reassurance that these new powers won't be abused. Haven't we heard this story before? In the cold war days, everyone was racing to get the bomb. Nowadays, it seems everyone is racing to get the powers of mass surveillance.
- nickysielicki 11y agoThe silver lining of all these entirely misguided and ineffective laws is that it's going to push the non-"terrorist"[0], law abiding, good people towards Tor and other secure communications, inherently strengthening them. The terrorists and pedophiles are already on there anyway. And the powers that be can't do anything about it. We seriously need more computer scientists in politics, or even better, we need computer sciences and technical literacy to be requirements for anyone getting a college degree, no matter what they're studying. [0]: terrorist in quotes because I don't believe in the word. Terrorism is doublespeak, and it always has been.
- irixusr 11y agoThere was a recent article on HN on how government is now actively harassing tor exit nodes.
- nickysielicki 11y agothat's an issue with the state of tor, not an issue with tor itself. It can and will improve.
- rayiner 11y agoWhat does understanding how computers work have to do with your political views about how people should be able to use computers?
- nickysielicki 11y agoI'm giving these politicians the benefit of the doubt and assuming they truly believe these laws could be effective, and that they truly want what's best for their country. But these laws obviously are not going to be effective. The people we have to worry about, the extremists, the perverts, the druggies, they're not able to be controlled anyway. What good is a law that locks someone's bank account and takes down someone's website when you don't know who they are and you don't know where their server is? The point is: They're misinformed if they think this is actually going to thwart terrorism, or extremism, or communications of anyone who is actually discussing sensitive things. And they need to be educated, so that they can understand that.
- floor__ 11y agoJust an awful day for Canada. Whats the point of the government if they don't listen to the people. I can't see more than 1% of the population wanting this. Should elect a government that listens to the people.
- MichaelGG 11y agoI'm Canadian but haven't been there much. It appears that there are a lot of simpleton Canadians that voted for the current government and probably think this kinda thing is OK.
- rayiner 11y agoTry 35-38% overall, and 72% of conservatives: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/10/bill-c-51-poll-anti-terror-legislation_n_7042460.html http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/10/bill-c-51-poll-anti-.... The government is listening to the people that elected them.
- vehementi 11y agoThe people didn't want it in the first place - it wasn't like 72% of conservatives came up and said "hey we need a spying bill". Please. Idiots are just voting for their party or what the millions of dollars of propaganda tells them to, while decades of "think of the children" monologues echo through their minds.
- rayiner 11y agoAh yes, the whole "you can't refute my baseless assertions about what people want with poll numbers because sheeple" argument.
- badloginagain 11y agoIt's not baseless. The reason he gave is incorrect, but it's not baseless. It's a problem with the First Past the Post election style, where there is a clear imbalance between the Seats you get an the % of people who voted for you. If you can give me a logical reason why 38% gives you anywhere close to a majority mandate, especially one that is used to pass multiple dangerous omnibus bills, then I can recommend a great career for you at the CPC.
- rgawdzik 11y agoSo this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.
- Intermernet 11y agoThis is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper. T. S. Eliot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hollow_Men http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hollow_Men
- DigitalSea 11y agoLooks like democracy has well and truly failed in Canada. Just wow. Look at that oversight. I think it is just a matter of time until this bill is used to target people for acts other than terrorism. With this kind of power comes misuse. If you're Canadian, be careful what you say online because it might be used to stop you flying or worse, imprisoned.
- higherpurpose 11y agoThe problem is as usual the culture. If most of the people truly don't want this then it's just a matter of time until they do mass protests/revolt, etc. However, if the government manages to control everything quickly - Putin-style - and then through the brain-washing mass-media manages to change the culture and make people believe that what they are doing is good and right, then yeah, you're screwed. Look at China - most people there seem to actually believe that "censorship works" in "keeping the society united" or whatever bullshit the government is feeding them. That's the real danger. Not some random dictator coming to power. But a change of culture and beliefs in the population.
- totony 11y agoProtesting is illegal in Canada. Just look at the recent protests and what hapened in Quebec w/r to education protests.
- lo_fye 11y agoBe careful of what you say here... it could get you put on a no fly list, or result in your website evapourating.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- jbernab 11y agoMost governments around the world have secretly declared war to the people long ago... but just now they are declaring it openly, trying to hide the intent saying those are for terrorists, but redefining how a terrorist looks like. Now is pretty late.
- alfredxing 11y agoI'm actually wondering why the politicians voted for the bill today. Federal elections are only a few months away, and surely with such a large show of backlash from the public and the media, they would be more mindful of the effect of this on their chances of getting re-elected? What's the use in passing a bill if it means you potentially won't get to take advantage and/or abuse it for more than a couple of months?
- fsloth 11y agoI have not followed canadian politics. Could someone give a tiny synopsis - Has there been some major political shift there recently or what?
- alfredxing 11y agoThis (quite recent) HN post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9416549 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9416549 and the top comment on it explain C-51 quite well. Current Canadian politics summary: Stephen Harper.
- jdc 11y agoWhat surprised me was the the Liberal party helped pass it.
- ojbyrne 11y agoPolitics I believe. The liberals knew it was going to get passed one way or another, and if they voted against it, the Conservatives would use the "supporting terrorism and pedophilia" attack on them in the coming election.
- tempestn 11y agoI agree. Presumably they have their talking points lined up, this isn't one of them, and they know if they vote with the Conservatives it's a non-issue. That said, it's still really disappointing.
- badloginagain 11y agoBut it's push left leaning voters to NDP. This cuts into the Liberals base something fierce, so unless Trudeau is trying to split the conservative vote (which seems insane) then they've severely stumbled. They said they'd back it with modifications, no modifications were made, and they voted Yes anyways. What message he was trying to send to voters backing down so easily?
- nether 11y agoExcellent.
- walterbell 11y agoOrphan Black (set in Toronto) could incorporate this bill into a storyline, to raise awareness of possible futures.
- robertfw 11y agoThis Bill has brought the grassroots out of the soil, myself included - lots of the people I've been working with were not politically active until C51 was tabled. The NDP win in Alberta is making people realize that change is possible. The NDP stand a real chance of winning a majority government this fall.
- robertfw 11y agoThis Bill has brought the grassroots out of the soil, myself included - lots of the people I've been working with were not politically active until C51 was tabled. The NDP win in Alberta is making people realize that change is possible. The NDP stand a real chance of winning a majority government this fall.
- dmix 11y ago> covertly interfere with radical websites What are the grounds to be considered a "radical website"? I helped volunteer to build the Toronto Cryptoparty website, so this concerns me as a Canadian citizen. Especially as encryption becomes further villianized by the government and media.
- Spooks 11y agoHere is a list of who voted yea or nay. http://www.parl.gc.ca/HouseChamberBusiness/ChamberVoteDetail.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=41&Ses=2&FltrParl=41&FltrSes=2&Vote=392 http://www.parl.gc.ca/HouseChamberBusiness/ChamberVoteDetail... I love how the liberals were saying they are for the bill but it requires some modification, and yet they all vote for it anyways.
- 12bits 11y agohttp://www.canadassecretbigbrother.com/ http://www.canadassecretbigbrother.com/