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(Google Cloud Support here) The across-the-board guidance to go to StackOverflow is not working, and we get that. It's not just that system administration ques

by jjjjoe 11y ago

(Google Cloud Support here) The across-the-board guidance to go to StackOverflow is not working, and we get that. It's not just that system administration questions get downvoted on StackOverflow (which I think is the parent's point) but that StackExchange isn't good for general discussion. We (support) are trying to be much more clear that free support is not "StackOverflow or nothing." We recently updated our "community" support page at https://support.google.com/cloud/answer/3466163 https://support.google.com/cloud/answer/3466163 to lay out all of the community support options in one place. Bottom line: everything listed on that page has Googlers actively participating. This includes groups, StackExchange, and issue trackers. There's room for plenty of improvement, the intent is not to ignore you.

hoodoof 11y ago
Google should have a central support forum and try to focus all the questions into one place. StackOverflow should not be on your support list at all, for the reasons raised. Having said that, Google should still be on SO answering questions that end up there. What Google needs to understand is that its long standing public reputation that it has built is an organisation that actively tries to avoid providing support - ever since Google started it has tried to avoid support. That is now the reputation that Google carries into its efforts to woo the developer community. Google has to be extraordinarily good at developer support to dispel the baseline assumption that developers have that Google really (genuinely) wants to avoid dealing with support questions. There's a level of cluelessness to Google's support strategy that is concerning. Why, for goodness sake, would it EVER look like a good idea to push support to StackOverflow? Who is doing the thinking behind that sort of decision? It is self evident that Google's support interests and StackOverflow are not the same thing. It's the sort of decision made without really considering the detail, and that is the point about Google's support - it's an afterthought. Kind of like washing the dishes after dinner is eaten - has to be done but we're not enthused about it. And in the end, lack of support is a showstopper for using a cloud computing platform. If the support looks sketchy then it just isn't worth risking your business by using that platform.
- SiVal 11y ago
  Stack Overflow is the Soup Nazi of technical Q&A. It's where mods compete for who can be the first to find a way to prevent you from getting an answer. ("Repeat: someone asked a question about a similar topic a couple of years ago with two contradictory answers that were both wrong, so we will not only NOT answer you, but we will prevent anyone ELSE from answering you, either! You're welcome.") If Google doesn't want support questions getting through, forcing us to submit them through Stack Overflow should do the trick nicely.
- jjjjoe 11y ago
  You make great points. I'm new and can't really speak to your rhetorical question of "what were they thinking?!?" but I do hope for my own job security that support isn't an afterthought :-) First, I should point out that what we are talking about here is Google's "Bronze Support." This is similar to Amazon's "Basic Support." In both cases it's not what you should be thinking about if you need a case response time SLA, or the ability to wake up engineers at midnight. If your business depends on any platform provider I really hope you buy a support plan which gets you the ability to talk to support and engineering whenever you need. Google definitely offers these. They start at $150 per month. (https://cloud.google.com/support/ https://cloud.google.com/support/) End plug. On StackOverflow: let's stop calling it "support." It's a Q&A site with good SEO. If you have a question which "belongs" there it's a fine place to ask. We're moderating our "go to StackOverflow no matter what" messaging, but I can't see tossing it completely. Anyway, when it comes to free support, I partially agree with your point about a single forum, in that can be confusing. Again, keep an eye on https://support.google.com/cloud/answer/3466163?hl=en&ref_topic=3340599 https://support.google.com/cloud/answer/3466163?hl=en&ref_to... To your point about a single forum for everything, I respectfully disagree. Free-form discussion is different from bug tracking. Highly structured Q&A has a place too. It seems to me that every product should have - a discussion forum where users can discuss the product and raise issues - an issue tracker to collect bug reports and feature requests - a designated place for Q&A On each of those three, support staff and (preferably) engineers should participate daily. I think the situation with Compute Engine is closest to our ideal right now: it has a lively Google Group, actively triaged issue tracker and a sponsored tag on ServerFault (which I hope we can agree is a better destination than StackOverflow)
EugeneOZ 11y ago
Link to StackOverflow is equal to "RTFM". With same success you could just put some search engine input box.

by jjjjoe 11y ago

hoodoof 11y ago

Google should have a central support forum and try to focus all the questions into one place. StackOverflow should not be on your support list at all, for the reasons raised. Having said that, Google should still be on SO answering questions that end up there. What Google needs to understand is that its long standing public reputation that it has built is an organisation that actively tries to avoid providing support - ever since Google started it has tried to avoid support. That is now the reputation that Google carries into its efforts to woo the developer community. Google has to be extraordinarily good at developer support to dispel the baseline assumption that developers have that Google really (genuinely) wants to avoid dealing with support questions. There's a level of cluelessness to Google's support strategy that is concerning. Why, for goodness sake, would it EVER look like a good idea to push support to StackOverflow? Who is doing the thinking behind that sort of decision? It is self evident that Google's support interests and StackOverflow are not the same thing. It's the sort of decision made without really considering the detail, and that is the point about Google's support - it's an afterthought. Kind of like washing the dishes after dinner is eaten - has to be done but we're not enthused about it. And in the end, lack of support is a showstopper for using a cloud computing platform. If the support looks sketchy then it just isn't worth risking your business by using that platform.

SiVal 11y ago
Stack Overflow is the Soup Nazi of technical Q&A. It's where mods compete for who can be the first to find a way to prevent you from getting an answer. ("Repeat: someone asked a question about a similar topic a couple of years ago with two contradictory answers that were both wrong, so we will not only NOT answer you, but we will prevent anyone ELSE from answering you, either! You're welcome.") If Google doesn't want support questions getting through, forcing us to submit them through Stack Overflow should do the trick nicely.
jjjjoe 11y ago
You make great points. I'm new and can't really speak to your rhetorical question of "what were they thinking?!?" but I do hope for my own job security that support isn't an afterthought :-) First, I should point out that what we are talking about here is Google's "Bronze Support." This is similar to Amazon's "Basic Support." In both cases it's not what you should be thinking about if you need a case response time SLA, or the ability to wake up engineers at midnight. If your business depends on any platform provider I really hope you buy a support plan which gets you the ability to talk to support and engineering whenever you need. Google definitely offers these. They start at $150 per month. (https://cloud.google.com/support/ https://cloud.google.com/support/) End plug. On StackOverflow: let's stop calling it "support." It's a Q&A site with good SEO. If you have a question which "belongs" there it's a fine place to ask. We're moderating our "go to StackOverflow no matter what" messaging, but I can't see tossing it completely. Anyway, when it comes to free support, I partially agree with your point about a single forum, in that can be confusing. Again, keep an eye on https://support.google.com/cloud/answer/3466163?hl=en&ref_topic=3340599 https://support.google.com/cloud/answer/3466163?hl=en&ref_to... To your point about a single forum for everything, I respectfully disagree. Free-form discussion is different from bug tracking. Highly structured Q&A has a place too. It seems to me that every product should have - a discussion forum where users can discuss the product and raise issues - an issue tracker to collect bug reports and feature requests - a designated place for Q&A On each of those three, support staff and (preferably) engineers should participate daily. I think the situation with Compute Engine is closest to our ideal right now: it has a lively Google Group, actively triaged issue tracker and a sponsored tag on ServerFault (which I hope we can agree is a better destination than StackOverflow)

EugeneOZ 11y ago

Link to StackOverflow is equal to "RTFM". With same success you could just put some search engine input box.