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"It was only then that I realized something: my death wasn’t just about me. It would completely destroy the lives of those I cared most about. I imagined my mom

"It was only then that I realized something: my death wasn’t just about me. It would completely destroy the lives of those I cared most about. I imagined my mom, who had no part in creating my thesis mess, suffering until her dying day, blaming herself." I'm sorry, but that consideration just doesn't help. If the pain (or emptiness) is so strong that you just want everything to stop, this consideration is absolutely worthless and unimportant.

mikeash 11y ago
Different people can be helped by different things. I think it's rather odd to take something said by somebody who was in the middle of planning his own suicide, and who got stopped because a certain event made him think about something he hadn't considered, and say that thinking about this particular thing doesn't help. It helped him, therefore clearly it can help.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - Hilby 11y ago
    I think that this particular issue is very sensitive, and very personal, and very individualized. Indeed, sometimes a reminder of the ties we have to the living world is a good thing at any time. For some, thinking of others and the impact their death might have on those around them is in fact enough to get them through a particularly bad spell. I think that it's important to note that it's not a feeling of guilt that should be focused on here. It's a feeling of connection. There are people who care and can help if you reach out. There are people who care. Of course it's not always enough. If it were, people would never commit suicide, would they? There is a great deal to be said for holding on for others those times you can't hold on for yourself. After all, life is very much a series of highs and lows.. sometimes, you need to latch onto whatever you can to get you through the lows.
tptacek 11y ago
You're being downvoted, but if you read advice on how to help people currently experiencing suicidal impulses, one of the first things you learn is not to try to combat them with messages of guilt or obligation. As I understand it (surely someone on HN has more exposure to this than I do; I've lost friends, but not myself experienced the impulse): The "do's": listen, empathize, stay calm, be hopeful in tone, vector them towards help. The "don'ts": argue them out of it, get emotional, judge, try to fix it yourself.
- michaelochurch 11y ago
  This is great advice. While suicide is often associated with depression, because people with major depression are often suicidal, the predominant attitude at the time is often one of unbearably intense anger or anxiety. Getting judgmental or combative is going to increase that. Also, many suicides involve alcohol (which, in some, produces a volatile state that mixes despondency and extreme anger) and drunk people don't exactly listen to reason. I think that it can be worthwhile to remind the person that he has friends who'll miss him, dogs to feed, etc. I don't think that laying in with guilt is the way to go. You want to give them images of the people they care about being happy, not images of them being wrecked by their own possible death.
tomjen3 11y ago
That depends. For some the guilt may be enough. For others it just makes them more miserable or they point out that it is not really fair that they should suffer. My parents love me, but they never asked me if I wanted to be born. If I was in pain that couldn't be treated and it made my life not worth living I would not feel obligated to continue living for their sake.
Lawtonfogle 11y ago
It depends upon the person. For some, causing pain to those close is a forcing pulling them away from doing it. For some, it doesn't matter. For some, causing pain only makes them want to do it more.
rip747 11y ago
What about the thoughts of how much better people's lives would be without you. I've have too many nights where I've just sat there in the dark thinking how much better life would be for everyone around me if I wasn't here. I've gotten over it though medication and therapy and still chug along, cause frankly, I've got too much stuff _I_ want to accomplish before death. I guess this is why I don't have or want but a select few people that are close to me in my life.
- alexashka 11y ago
  Stupid question - why would their life be better? For me, most people I meet day to day, they don't even exist past our minor interactions, most of which are positive because I'm positive. The few folks who I interact with on a regular basis - it is all positive, or else I'd stop interacting with them. There are situations where you have to regularly interact with people who are going to be annoying (teachers in school, parents if you live at home, boss at work, etc) - you just have to learn self-defense tactics and work toward being more independent. The people who are annoying - they are just incompetent at life. Their life sucks with me in it and with me not in it. The rest are either not affected or affected in a positive way. So I don't know where you're at but if you're not a net positive to those around you - you have got some work to do.
  - rip747 11y ago
    it has nothing to do with being "net positive" to those around you. You can be the best thing that has happened in people's lives. call it low self esteem, self worth, whatever, its just that for some reason, no matter how positive you are to them, you always feel like a burden.
    - alexashka 11y ago
      Sounds like it's time to change your environment. The reason some people are mopes is as I mentioned in the last post - they just are. They're stuck. Don't get stuck wasting your time being 'positive' to them. Be positive to yourself by not spending time around people who make you feel like shit and spending time around people you can learn from instead. Easier said than done of course, one step at a time :)
icc97 11y ago
I think the point is that it helped him. It might not work for you in your situation but it was the major trigger that stopped him doing it.

mikeash 11y ago

Different people can be helped by different things. I think it's rather odd to take something said by somebody who was in the middle of planning his own suicide, and who got stopped because a certain event made him think about something he hadn't considered, and say that thinking about this particular thing doesn't help. It helped him, therefore clearly it can help.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- Hilby 11y ago
  I think that this particular issue is very sensitive, and very personal, and very individualized. Indeed, sometimes a reminder of the ties we have to the living world is a good thing at any time. For some, thinking of others and the impact their death might have on those around them is in fact enough to get them through a particularly bad spell. I think that it's important to note that it's not a feeling of guilt that should be focused on here. It's a feeling of connection. There are people who care and can help if you reach out. There are people who care. Of course it's not always enough. If it were, people would never commit suicide, would they? There is a great deal to be said for holding on for others those times you can't hold on for yourself. After all, life is very much a series of highs and lows.. sometimes, you need to latch onto whatever you can to get you through the lows.

tptacek 11y ago

You're being downvoted, but if you read advice on how to help people currently experiencing suicidal impulses, one of the first things you learn is not to try to combat them with messages of guilt or obligation. As I understand it (surely someone on HN has more exposure to this than I do; I've lost friends, but not myself experienced the impulse): The "do's": listen, empathize, stay calm, be hopeful in tone, vector them towards help. The "don'ts": argue them out of it, get emotional, judge, try to fix it yourself.

michaelochurch 11y ago
This is great advice. While suicide is often associated with depression, because people with major depression are often suicidal, the predominant attitude at the time is often one of unbearably intense anger or anxiety. Getting judgmental or combative is going to increase that. Also, many suicides involve alcohol (which, in some, produces a volatile state that mixes despondency and extreme anger) and drunk people don't exactly listen to reason. I think that it can be worthwhile to remind the person that he has friends who'll miss him, dogs to feed, etc. I don't think that laying in with guilt is the way to go. You want to give them images of the people they care about being happy, not images of them being wrecked by their own possible death.

tomjen3 11y ago

That depends. For some the guilt may be enough. For others it just makes them more miserable or they point out that it is not really fair that they should suffer. My parents love me, but they never asked me if I wanted to be born. If I was in pain that couldn't be treated and it made my life not worth living I would not feel obligated to continue living for their sake.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago

It depends upon the person. For some, causing pain to those close is a forcing pulling them away from doing it. For some, it doesn't matter. For some, causing pain only makes them want to do it more.

rip747 11y ago

What about the thoughts of how much better people's lives would be without you. I've have too many nights where I've just sat there in the dark thinking how much better life would be for everyone around me if I wasn't here. I've gotten over it though medication and therapy and still chug along, cause frankly, I've got too much stuff _I_ want to accomplish before death. I guess this is why I don't have or want but a select few people that are close to me in my life.

alexashka 11y ago
Stupid question - why would their life be better? For me, most people I meet day to day, they don't even exist past our minor interactions, most of which are positive because I'm positive. The few folks who I interact with on a regular basis - it is all positive, or else I'd stop interacting with them. There are situations where you have to regularly interact with people who are going to be annoying (teachers in school, parents if you live at home, boss at work, etc) - you just have to learn self-defense tactics and work toward being more independent. The people who are annoying - they are just incompetent at life. Their life sucks with me in it and with me not in it. The rest are either not affected or affected in a positive way. So I don't know where you're at but if you're not a net positive to those around you - you have got some work to do.
- rip747 11y ago
  it has nothing to do with being "net positive" to those around you. You can be the best thing that has happened in people's lives. call it low self esteem, self worth, whatever, its just that for some reason, no matter how positive you are to them, you always feel like a burden.
  - alexashka 11y ago
    Sounds like it's time to change your environment. The reason some people are mopes is as I mentioned in the last post - they just are. They're stuck. Don't get stuck wasting your time being 'positive' to them. Be positive to yourself by not spending time around people who make you feel like shit and spending time around people you can learn from instead. Easier said than done of course, one step at a time :)

icc97 11y ago

I think the point is that it helped him. It might not work for you in your situation but it was the major trigger that stopped him doing it.