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Lenovo has, for years, been banned from US government use. They even have a patent on recovering TPM keys (http://www.google.com/patents/US8908867 http://www.go

by themeek 11y ago

Lenovo has, for years, been banned from US government use. They even have a patent on recovering TPM keys (http://www.google.com/patents/US8908867 http://www.google.com/patents/US8908867). It is well known (via Snowden) that the US installs backdoors into US hardware and software for export to China, and it has for at least 15 years warned about the same from imports. So none of this is particularly new. What is new is that the US is now moving against China on all fronts to prevent it from acquiring superpower status - to isolate it economically and politically, to block its trade and international investment programs, and to increase the risk of its using its military (with the second largest funding of any nation) to project power lawfully in the Asia Pacific. So these articles come at a good time for the US. You should not trust pretty much any hardware - recent revelations have shown that products come with backdoors; that is the article does not establish the absence of 'security flaws' by other manufacturers.

drzaiusapelord 11y ago
There's a big difference in intercepting packages and installing backdoors in a targeted and legal way, at least acording to SCOTUS who have zero problems with our status quo SIGINT operations thus making them lawful - and massive cyberwar attacks from China and cooked in state mandated malware. I know HN hates the US and thinks China and Russia are bastions of liberty and human rights, but the US's method are a million times more ethical than autocratic states in regards to SIGINT. Heck, Putin had Kaspersky give him information on journalists he didn't like. Meanwhile, my Russian friends on VK are always bugging me about citizenship and H1bs. Yeah, they WANT to come here, pal. They hate it there, they aren't blinded by anti-US, anti-UN, anti-NATO propaganda so popular here. They're gentle geeks in fear of a dictator who could eliminate them at any moment. If I had the power and wealth I would hire them all and bring them to the states. Every. Single. One. >China on all fronts to prevent it from acquiring superpower status - to isolate it economically and politically, We power their economy via our manufacturing and via the sales of our products. If anything they are close economic partners. Are we moving all of our manufacturing to Mexico or something? Seems to me the US is very much tied to the success of China. I can't interpret your statement as anything but incredibly dishonest. Does our national firewall block alibaba now? Oh right, we don't have a national firewall. They do. hell, my own company is tortured by their VPN and censorship limitations. This is a daily headache for me and I'm TRYING TO DO BUSINESS WITH THEM. If anyone is business hostile its them - to us. Hell, they outright block Google services on Android. > and to increase the risk of its using its military This is asinine. China is unilaterally taking over disputed islands with zero attempts to use diplomacy, the UN, etc. The Japanese, Korea, and others have claims on those islands. Why are you dismissing their rights? Because they are "evil US" partners as well? Meanwhile the Chinese prop up the worst state in modernity which has become a mass murder state we have not seen since Stalinist times. I was just in South Korea and its complete madness that a modern democratic state needs to be terrorized by a client Chinese state 24/7 via a madman with nuclear weapons because the CCP likes to "stick it to America." The Koreans we met, drank with, laughed with, etc were no different than me. They bought us gifts and were so gentle, humorous, and loving (especially of children and the elderly) it breaks my heart to think they are one madman's decision away to shell Seoul which would destroy it, and them, in minutes. But I get to fly home to a secure nation because of our strong military and they get to sit there waiting the CCP to tell their pet attack dog to invade or have their pet attack dog go off chain and shell a few things and blow up some nukes to terrorize them. Its depressing. The one man who had a son in the military was so proud of his son's service and showed us many photos, knowing full well, that kid is mincemeat when the North decides it times to roll tanks with Beijing's blessing. The kid looked 16. > to project power lawfully in the Asia Pacific. This is pro-China bullshit right here. Lawfully by whose standards? The CCP? Oh okay. Only on a kiddie politics site like HN or reddit would a dishonest and extremely biased anti-US comment like yours be voted to the top. Grow up.
- coldpie 11y ago
  > I know HN thinks China and Russia are bastions of liberty and human rights Citation needed.
  - MaulingMonkey 11y ago
    Confusion over "HN" being surprised, and finding it noteworthy, when China and Russia are "Playing Against Type"?
- themeek 11y ago
  I don't hate the US, so that's a weird accusation... > > to project power lawfully in the Asia Pacific. > This is pro-China bullshit right here. Lawfully by whose standards? International standards. There is nothing wrong with sending your naval forces into international waters so long as proper notifications are made. China is doing this. Is is lawful. It is aggressive. The Japanese and Philippines don't like it. But it is lawful. > There's a big difference in intercepting packages and installing backdoors in a targeted and legal way, at least acording to SCOTUS who have ZERO problems with our status quo - and massive cyberwar attacks from China and cooked in state mandated malware. Yes there is. Actually, both the US and China (and France and Israel and Germany and the UK and Russia, etc, etc) perform massive cyberwar attacks. They all also backdoor their hardware and software en masse (not just targeted interception). > the US's method are a million times more ethical than autocratic states in regards to SIGINT. Heck, Putin had Kaspersky give him information on journalists he didn't like. I don't think you want an apple to apple comparison with the US... The US just turned their intelligence agencies on the Associated Press to ruin their relationships with informants and to track their sources... The US does have more covert ways of doing things - their censorship and propaganda efforts are more covert and rely more on bribery and deception than force. But is that something we want to cheer on? The US is much better than Russia on journalistic rights. The US isn't fighting huge swaths of KGB installed media in the US, whereas Russia has to deal with Western NGOs and CIA intermediaries. So what? And why do you want to bring it up? > We power their economy via our manufacturing and via the sales of our products. If anything they are close economic partners. Are we moving all of our manufacturing to Mexico or something? Seems to me the US is very much tied to the success of China. We are tied to the success of China. But not its success of becoming a superpower. This is the distinction you are asking for. > > and to increase the risk of its using its military > This is asinine. China is unilaterally taking over disputed islands with zero attempts to use diplomacy, the UN, etc. The Japanese and others have claims on those islands. Why are you dismissing their rights? Because they are "evil US" partners as well? Erg, well the situation is a whole lot more complicated than you made it? Technically nothing they are doing is illegal. I'm not going to say its right? All I'm getting at is that no state is right. The US isn't a hero. Neither is China. They are merely in conflict. We are stuck in the middle. I didn't buy good versus evil. You did. For you the US is good and China is evil. You are accusing HN (and me) of thinking China is good and the US is evil. Neither is true. There is no good or evil. There are states in conflict. And there are ideals they both break. The point of my post is to bring up the point that it is not China breaking with ideals. It is every nation breaking with ideals.

by themeek 11y ago

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

There's a big difference in intercepting packages and installing backdoors in a targeted and legal way, at least acording to SCOTUS who have zero problems with our status quo SIGINT operations thus making them lawful - and massive cyberwar attacks from China and cooked in state mandated malware. I know HN hates the US and thinks China and Russia are bastions of liberty and human rights, but the US's method are a million times more ethical than autocratic states in regards to SIGINT. Heck, Putin had Kaspersky give him information on journalists he didn't like. Meanwhile, my Russian friends on VK are always bugging me about citizenship and H1bs. Yeah, they WANT to come here, pal. They hate it there, they aren't blinded by anti-US, anti-UN, anti-NATO propaganda so popular here. They're gentle geeks in fear of a dictator who could eliminate them at any moment. If I had the power and wealth I would hire them all and bring them to the states. Every. Single. One. >China on all fronts to prevent it from acquiring superpower status - to isolate it economically and politically, We power their economy via our manufacturing and via the sales of our products. If anything they are close economic partners. Are we moving all of our manufacturing to Mexico or something? Seems to me the US is very much tied to the success of China. I can't interpret your statement as anything but incredibly dishonest. Does our national firewall block alibaba now? Oh right, we don't have a national firewall. They do. hell, my own company is tortured by their VPN and censorship limitations. This is a daily headache for me and I'm TRYING TO DO BUSINESS WITH THEM. If anyone is business hostile its them - to us. Hell, they outright block Google services on Android. > and to increase the risk of its using its military This is asinine. China is unilaterally taking over disputed islands with zero attempts to use diplomacy, the UN, etc. The Japanese, Korea, and others have claims on those islands. Why are you dismissing their rights? Because they are "evil US" partners as well? Meanwhile the Chinese prop up the worst state in modernity which has become a mass murder state we have not seen since Stalinist times. I was just in South Korea and its complete madness that a modern democratic state needs to be terrorized by a client Chinese state 24/7 via a madman with nuclear weapons because the CCP likes to "stick it to America." The Koreans we met, drank with, laughed with, etc were no different than me. They bought us gifts and were so gentle, humorous, and loving (especially of children and the elderly) it breaks my heart to think they are one madman's decision away to shell Seoul which would destroy it, and them, in minutes. But I get to fly home to a secure nation because of our strong military and they get to sit there waiting the CCP to tell their pet attack dog to invade or have their pet attack dog go off chain and shell a few things and blow up some nukes to terrorize them. Its depressing. The one man who had a son in the military was so proud of his son's service and showed us many photos, knowing full well, that kid is mincemeat when the North decides it times to roll tanks with Beijing's blessing. The kid looked 16. > to project power lawfully in the Asia Pacific. This is pro-China bullshit right here. Lawfully by whose standards? The CCP? Oh okay. Only on a kiddie politics site like HN or reddit would a dishonest and extremely biased anti-US comment like yours be voted to the top. Grow up.

coldpie 11y ago
> I know HN thinks China and Russia are bastions of liberty and human rights Citation needed.
- MaulingMonkey 11y ago
  Confusion over "HN" being surprised, and finding it noteworthy, when China and Russia are "Playing Against Type"?
themeek 11y ago
I don't hate the US, so that's a weird accusation... > > to project power lawfully in the Asia Pacific. > This is pro-China bullshit right here. Lawfully by whose standards? International standards. There is nothing wrong with sending your naval forces into international waters so long as proper notifications are made. China is doing this. Is is lawful. It is aggressive. The Japanese and Philippines don't like it. But it is lawful. > There's a big difference in intercepting packages and installing backdoors in a targeted and legal way, at least acording to SCOTUS who have ZERO problems with our status quo - and massive cyberwar attacks from China and cooked in state mandated malware. Yes there is. Actually, both the US and China (and France and Israel and Germany and the UK and Russia, etc, etc) perform massive cyberwar attacks. They all also backdoor their hardware and software en masse (not just targeted interception). > the US's method are a million times more ethical than autocratic states in regards to SIGINT. Heck, Putin had Kaspersky give him information on journalists he didn't like. I don't think you want an apple to apple comparison with the US... The US just turned their intelligence agencies on the Associated Press to ruin their relationships with informants and to track their sources... The US does have more covert ways of doing things - their censorship and propaganda efforts are more covert and rely more on bribery and deception than force. But is that something we want to cheer on? The US is much better than Russia on journalistic rights. The US isn't fighting huge swaths of KGB installed media in the US, whereas Russia has to deal with Western NGOs and CIA intermediaries. So what? And why do you want to bring it up? > We power their economy via our manufacturing and via the sales of our products. If anything they are close economic partners. Are we moving all of our manufacturing to Mexico or something? Seems to me the US is very much tied to the success of China. We are tied to the success of China. But not its success of becoming a superpower. This is the distinction you are asking for. > > and to increase the risk of its using its military > This is asinine. China is unilaterally taking over disputed islands with zero attempts to use diplomacy, the UN, etc. The Japanese and others have claims on those islands. Why are you dismissing their rights? Because they are "evil US" partners as well? Erg, well the situation is a whole lot more complicated than you made it? Technically nothing they are doing is illegal. I'm not going to say its right? All I'm getting at is that no state is right. The US isn't a hero. Neither is China. They are merely in conflict. We are stuck in the middle. I didn't buy good versus evil. You did. For you the US is good and China is evil. You are accusing HN (and me) of thinking China is good and the US is evil. Neither is true. There is no good or evil. There are states in conflict. And there are ideals they both break. The point of my post is to bring up the point that it is not China breaking with ideals. It is every nation breaking with ideals.