4 ms·

First off, I never understood this specific flavor of negativity. There's hundreds of foods that are delicious, how dare you introduce another delicious food!

First off, I never understood this specific flavor of negativity. There's hundreds of foods that are delicious, how dare you introduce another delicious food! To your point of why use lattice instead of "more enterprise workloads", well, this is coming from Pivotal / Cloud Foundry who are huge players in the field and work with companies like SAP, Rakuten and Cisco. > Why don't you push something more into Local Distribution? I don't understand what you mean by Local Distribution. Anyways Lattice is specifically targeted at spinning up __many__ containers that work together over networks while performing routing and healthchecks (amongst other functionality) so it's probably not what you're looking for if you want a local container spinner-upper tool. I'd just use straight docker myself.

merb 11y ago
Currently Lattice is only supported in: > We currently support AWS, DigitalOcean, and Google Cloud That's what I mean by Local Distribution. They don't have Support for OpenStack yet. etc.. I mean AWS and Google Cloud have their Container Tool for spinning more than many containers with networking, etc... AWS ECS and Kubernetes coming with a default scheduler, that will spin up new containers if some containers fail. As already said Pivotal is a good company I know that. They own Spring, which is really great. But they are also one of these guys that are telling us, "start out small". Cool, but how could I start out small on premise when there is zero tooling?? I mean I could sping up EVERYTHING on AWS / Google Cloud and scale to dozens of machines and containers since I have a shitload of tooling, I could choose what provider I will use for that. I even could use different Cloud enabled Operating Systems or I could just use Mesos for doing this stuff, it's really easy when working on top of cloud providers. But if some of these companies like pivotal would help people more on their own stuff we wouldn't have this fancy with everything needs to be in the cloud. I mean Cloud Foundry also dropped support for Micro Cloud Foundry, I really don't know why. As already said I don't need another "cloud enabled platform" I have a lot of them, and they are running fine, even with 1.000 containers.. But still I never get it why nobody targets a better solution than OpenStack (or any other private Cloud) behind a firewall.. Like a tool where I could start with something like 3-6 boxes and scale to a thousand, with or without docker. Where I don't need to care that much of my underlying system.
- anonfunction 11y ago
  Thanks for the reply, I get what you mean now.
  - merb 11y ago
    Oh and just as a side note: My company is migrating our Python Codebase to Spring Boot.
- parasubvert 11y ago
  Supporting local distrbutions of Lattice/Cloud Foundry on OpenStack or vSphere is what Pivotal makes its money from. Lattice is, among other things, about "taking out" things from Cloud Foundry to make it simpler. Hence the delegating to Vagrant or Terraform. Supporting OpenStack or vSphere is not simple. (IOW, Terraform doesn't support either yet). That's what BOSH does, but I suspect Lattice exists with a "no BOSH required" constraint, because some have a hard time with BOSH. As for Micro Cloud Foundry, bosh-lite is the replacement, where you can run a full CF deployment in a 6 GB VM. CF proper already can deploy on OpenStack (I hear some have deployed it on their laptop) or vSphere (this needs 64 GB RAM, thus more than a laptop).
  - merb 11y ago
    64 gb memory for a vsphere deployment is what you would call small? Also I have had a hard time with bosh (and bosh-lite) I liked the lattice approach, but still no proper support for vsphere and openstack. As already said its simple to do something on aws and gcloud. We run a lot of things in the cloud especially software for updating our customer software and it is really straight to deal with that. However we still have some problems in our on-premise software, its really hard to manage that. as you said support for non-cloud or own-cloud environments is hard and thats where our toolset struggles, where everyones toolset struggles.
    - parasubvert 11y ago
      Yes, 64 GB for vsphere is "small", mainly because of VM overhead for various pieces. Bosh-lite shrinks that down a lot by using Linux containers. Lattice shrinks it more. Lattice is nice because it strips out the security layer, multi tenant controller, and BOSH ...but no other configuration framework has a rich Vmware/Openstack support. It suppose it's possible to whip up some Chef recipes / Ansible play books with Fog scripts, as BOSH really is a wrapper around Fog. I found BOSH hard to learn at first but now I love it, it's my favorite config framework AND supports Vsphere/Openstack. The Pivotal version of CF wraps BOSH with a web GUI to make it easy (no bosh-lite sadly), barring that I'd suggest looking at some of Dr. Nic Williams' blog posts and github repos for learning: https://github.com/drnic/bosh-getting-started/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/drnic/bosh-getting-started/blob/master/RE...

merb 11y ago

Currently Lattice is only supported in: > We currently support AWS, DigitalOcean, and Google Cloud That's what I mean by Local Distribution. They don't have Support for OpenStack yet. etc.. I mean AWS and Google Cloud have their Container Tool for spinning more than many containers with networking, etc... AWS ECS and Kubernetes coming with a default scheduler, that will spin up new containers if some containers fail. As already said Pivotal is a good company I know that. They own Spring, which is really great. But they are also one of these guys that are telling us, "start out small". Cool, but how could I start out small on premise when there is zero tooling?? I mean I could sping up EVERYTHING on AWS / Google Cloud and scale to dozens of machines and containers since I have a shitload of tooling, I could choose what provider I will use for that. I even could use different Cloud enabled Operating Systems or I could just use Mesos for doing this stuff, it's really easy when working on top of cloud providers. But if some of these companies like pivotal would help people more on their own stuff we wouldn't have this fancy with everything needs to be in the cloud. I mean Cloud Foundry also dropped support for Micro Cloud Foundry, I really don't know why. As already said I don't need another "cloud enabled platform" I have a lot of them, and they are running fine, even with 1.000 containers.. But still I never get it why nobody targets a better solution than OpenStack (or any other private Cloud) behind a firewall.. Like a tool where I could start with something like 3-6 boxes and scale to a thousand, with or without docker. Where I don't need to care that much of my underlying system.

anonfunction 11y ago
Thanks for the reply, I get what you mean now.
- merb 11y ago
  Oh and just as a side note: My company is migrating our Python Codebase to Spring Boot.
parasubvert 11y ago
Supporting local distrbutions of Lattice/Cloud Foundry on OpenStack or vSphere is what Pivotal makes its money from. Lattice is, among other things, about "taking out" things from Cloud Foundry to make it simpler. Hence the delegating to Vagrant or Terraform. Supporting OpenStack or vSphere is not simple. (IOW, Terraform doesn't support either yet). That's what BOSH does, but I suspect Lattice exists with a "no BOSH required" constraint, because some have a hard time with BOSH. As for Micro Cloud Foundry, bosh-lite is the replacement, where you can run a full CF deployment in a 6 GB VM. CF proper already can deploy on OpenStack (I hear some have deployed it on their laptop) or vSphere (this needs 64 GB RAM, thus more than a laptop).
- merb 11y ago
  64 gb memory for a vsphere deployment is what you would call small? Also I have had a hard time with bosh (and bosh-lite) I liked the lattice approach, but still no proper support for vsphere and openstack. As already said its simple to do something on aws and gcloud. We run a lot of things in the cloud especially software for updating our customer software and it is really straight to deal with that. However we still have some problems in our on-premise software, its really hard to manage that. as you said support for non-cloud or own-cloud environments is hard and thats where our toolset struggles, where everyones toolset struggles.
  - parasubvert 11y ago
    Yes, 64 GB for vsphere is "small", mainly because of VM overhead for various pieces. Bosh-lite shrinks that down a lot by using Linux containers. Lattice shrinks it more. Lattice is nice because it strips out the security layer, multi tenant controller, and BOSH ...but no other configuration framework has a rich Vmware/Openstack support. It suppose it's possible to whip up some Chef recipes / Ansible play books with Fog scripts, as BOSH really is a wrapper around Fog. I found BOSH hard to learn at first but now I love it, it's my favorite config framework AND supports Vsphere/Openstack. The Pivotal version of CF wraps BOSH with a web GUI to make it easy (no bosh-lite sadly), barring that I'd suggest looking at some of Dr. Nic Williams' blog posts and github repos for learning: https://github.com/drnic/bosh-getting-started/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/drnic/bosh-getting-started/blob/master/RE...