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of course they can escape it. they just have to change their name. that's what my family did for me, and what i will do for my kids if i have kids. as far as

of course they can escape it. they just have to change their name. that's what my family did for me, and what i will do for my kids if i have kids. as far as i'm concerned if you have serious professional ambitions in the US, you're being foolish if you keep an 'ethnic' sounding name. keeping your disadvantageous name and arrogantly shaking your fist at the world to change to suit your political tastes is insane to me.

deleted 12y ago
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foldr 12y ago
I think the point is that the name is disadvantageous because it makes people think that he's black, and black people cannot stop being black. In other words, if you're actually black, then you can't escape racism just by changing your name. I'm not sure what you mean by "political tastes". I'd have thought pretty much everyone was opposed to e.g. refusing to rent an apartment to someone because of their name, or because you think that they're black.
- beachstartup 12y ago
  > In other words, if you're actually black, then you can't escape racism just by changing your name. no shit sherlock. but changing your name to a neutral sounding one, no matter what your race, will get you in the door at a much higher rate, where you are actually able to present yourself and your abilities instead of having your resume, application, submission, or email summarily tossed in the trash for no reason other than prejudice. small advantages like this compound over time. small disadvantages also compound. it's an optimization, and a highly effective one at that, but nothing more, nothing less than that.
  - foldr 12y ago
    Changing your name might help, though it's sad that anyone should have to do this. I was replying because you (a) seemed to be missing the OP's point and (b) were coming close to blaming victims of racial discrimination for not changing their names.
    - vfa33 12y ago
      It's absolutely victim blaming, not just coming close to it. Of all the backwards and ridiculous comments I've seen on race-related threads here, that one is really exceptionally stupid.
      - beachstartup 12y ago
        there's basically two kinds of people in the world. those that will sit around and mope and moan about how unfair the world is, and invent terms like 'victim blaming'. and those who take concrete, actionable steps to overcome or work around the problem. don't fucking fool yourself, nothing will erase the prejudice against certain names in the next 50 years. just ask any american who isn't white. they've had to deal with this shit from the very beginning, it's not an abstract textbook concept to them.
        foldr 12y ago
        >nothing will erase the prejudice against certain names in the next 50 years. Why the pessimism? Race relations have come on a decently long way in the last 50 years. I don't think anyone's saying that it's wrong for someone to change their name to avoid prejudice. The point is that no-one should be expected to change their name for this reason.
        beachstartup 11y ago
        that's very noble. but you sound like you're a white guy who has good intentions but very loose grasp of how things work in reality. maybe i'm wrong, but that's just my feeling.
        foldr 11y ago
        I think you are missing my point. I'm not criticizing individuals for choosing to change their names. I'm just pointing out that it's pretty shitty that they feel the need to do this. If you're fine with the status quo as (I'm guessing) a non-white person, then, well, good for you. But you shouldn't blame people who don't choose to change their names.
jrells 12y ago
I only said it must be tough to face (non-mistaken) racism. I am curious how this is arrogantly shaking my fist, or is related to my political tastes. And I'm curious what you believe those tastes to be. EDIT: In my own rereading, my original comment is strictly about the way people treat each other as individuals and could be consistent with any taste in politics from communism to anarchy.

deleted 12y ago

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foldr 12y ago

I think the point is that the name is disadvantageous because it makes people think that he's black, and black people cannot stop being black. In other words, if you're actually black, then you can't escape racism just by changing your name. I'm not sure what you mean by "political tastes". I'd have thought pretty much everyone was opposed to e.g. refusing to rent an apartment to someone because of their name, or because you think that they're black.

beachstartup 12y ago
> In other words, if you're actually black, then you can't escape racism just by changing your name. no shit sherlock. but changing your name to a neutral sounding one, no matter what your race, will get you in the door at a much higher rate, where you are actually able to present yourself and your abilities instead of having your resume, application, submission, or email summarily tossed in the trash for no reason other than prejudice. small advantages like this compound over time. small disadvantages also compound. it's an optimization, and a highly effective one at that, but nothing more, nothing less than that.
- foldr 12y ago
  Changing your name might help, though it's sad that anyone should have to do this. I was replying because you (a) seemed to be missing the OP's point and (b) were coming close to blaming victims of racial discrimination for not changing their names.
  - vfa33 12y ago
    It's absolutely victim blaming, not just coming close to it. Of all the backwards and ridiculous comments I've seen on race-related threads here, that one is really exceptionally stupid.
    - beachstartup 12y ago
      there's basically two kinds of people in the world. those that will sit around and mope and moan about how unfair the world is, and invent terms like 'victim blaming'. and those who take concrete, actionable steps to overcome or work around the problem. don't fucking fool yourself, nothing will erase the prejudice against certain names in the next 50 years. just ask any american who isn't white. they've had to deal with this shit from the very beginning, it's not an abstract textbook concept to them.
      - foldr 12y ago
        >nothing will erase the prejudice against certain names in the next 50 years. Why the pessimism? Race relations have come on a decently long way in the last 50 years. I don't think anyone's saying that it's wrong for someone to change their name to avoid prejudice. The point is that no-one should be expected to change their name for this reason.
        beachstartup 11y ago
        that's very noble. but you sound like you're a white guy who has good intentions but very loose grasp of how things work in reality. maybe i'm wrong, but that's just my feeling.
        foldr 11y ago
        I think you are missing my point. I'm not criticizing individuals for choosing to change their names. I'm just pointing out that it's pretty shitty that they feel the need to do this. If you're fine with the status quo as (I'm guessing) a non-white person, then, well, good for you. But you shouldn't blame people who don't choose to change their names.

jrells 12y ago

I only said it must be tough to face (non-mistaken) racism. I am curious how this is arrogantly shaking my fist, or is related to my political tastes. And I'm curious what you believe those tastes to be. EDIT: In my own rereading, my original comment is strictly about the way people treat each other as individuals and could be consistent with any taste in politics from communism to anarchy.