5 ms·

Trying to make work fun is a naive fool's errand. The nature of most work is to be repetitive, and repetition takes the fun out of anything.

by majani 11y ago

bandrami 11y ago
You should try being a sysadmin. It's very rare that you'll do the same thing on any given two days.
- Swizec 11y ago
  As a programmer I never do the same thing every day. But dear god does it often feel like I'm stuck doing the same class of thing. Get ticket. Reproduce bug. Fix bug. Close ticket. Repeat.
  - bandrami 11y ago
    Fair point. The "task diversity" of systems administration is a different world, particularly in non-tech industries (most sysadmins are working in companies that do things other than technology). Low-voltage cabling, basic plumbing (yes, really -- got to get the condensing water out from the air mover somehow...), finding the fault lines between hardware and software. I also really love hiring sysadmins, because it really is entirely about finding people who are good at isolating and solving problems, and surprisingly little specific platform knowledge is needed going in (my first sysadmin job way back in 1999 involved managing a 24-node sendmail cluster sending cough cough totally legitimate email to large numbers of people. My supervisor handed me the Bat Book and said "you'll probably need this. Have fun.").
    - Swizec 11y ago
      Ah yes, 1999, when to paraphrase Jason Calahanis in that one documentary "You'd get hired as an engineer for owning a keyboard and knowing how to type".
  - FLUX-YOU 11y ago
    That's a pretty helpful process though. Otherwise you have customers and account managers screaming at you to fix things through email/voice. I've gotten a few of those and the sense of urgency was a nice break, but I'd die from stress if I couldn't firewall that communication with a ticket system. But they don't let you work on new features? That sucks :(
Dewie3 11y ago
Attitudes and beliefs seem to have a tendency to be self-fulfilling to a point. So of course making work fun is going to be hopeless if you've made up your mind already that most of it can't be fun.
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
> repetition takes the fun out of anything. Except MMO's, which are probably the pinnacle of repetitive, work-like video games. Kill 10 rats times a billion.
- mrec 11y ago
  That doesn't sound like fun, that sounds like addiction. And AIUI those games are very specifically designed to be addictive. MMOs: not even once.
  - lfowles 11y ago
    Ok, I'd like my work to be addictive, as long as I'm required to keep my 5 8-hour days, I might as well look forward to it.
- MadManE 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure that the repetition in MMOs is not what most people consider the meat of the fun. It's an obstacle to get to the fun, because nobody can create enough real content to satisfy players. The big assumption here is that people are using their time optimally all the time. I think instead we simply run out of motivation and deal with whatever is going on instead of looking for the 'best' way to have fun/work. We're familiar with it, and dislike the cost associated with finding something new.
thirdtruck 11y ago
Your Protestant work ethic is showing.
visakanv 11y ago
> repetition takes the fun out of anything. I get where you're coming from, but this statement is easily disproven with any example of anybody who enjoys any repetitive task. I think the difference between painful and tolerable (or even fun!) repetition is context and measurement. You need to know why you're doing what you're doing, how it matters, how it helps. I remember reading in 'Made To Stick' about this famous cookhouse in Iraq, where the chef felt that him and his crew weren't merely responsible for providing rations, but for the morale of the troops. To them, their repetitive work had meaning. Repetition can also be fun when you get better at what you're doing. Look up videos on YouTube of folks in India making prata– they add all sorts of styles and flourish to their mundane tasks, and they clearly take a lot of pride in being so good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egltg4kW06Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egltg4kW06Q
pachydermic 11y ago
Tons of games are repetitive. All that free to play stuff. MMOs. Old arcade games. Tons of games have super tight "gameplay loops". Super meat boy - try, die, repeat right away until you win. Over and over and over again. Every level is just a variation of something before it. I don't think people dislike repetition at all. People repeat stuff all the time and like it. So there must be something else going on.

Trying to make work fun is a naive fool's errand. The nature of most work is to be repetitive, and repetition takes the fun out of anything.

by majani 11y ago

Trying to make work fun is a naive fool's errand. The nature of most work is to be repetitive, and repetition takes the fun out of anything.

bandrami 11y ago

You should try being a sysadmin. It's very rare that you'll do the same thing on any given two days.

Swizec 11y ago
As a programmer I never do the same thing every day. But dear god does it often feel like I'm stuck doing the same class of thing. Get ticket. Reproduce bug. Fix bug. Close ticket. Repeat.
- bandrami 11y ago
  Fair point. The "task diversity" of systems administration is a different world, particularly in non-tech industries (most sysadmins are working in companies that do things other than technology). Low-voltage cabling, basic plumbing (yes, really -- got to get the condensing water out from the air mover somehow...), finding the fault lines between hardware and software. I also really love hiring sysadmins, because it really is entirely about finding people who are good at isolating and solving problems, and surprisingly little specific platform knowledge is needed going in (my first sysadmin job way back in 1999 involved managing a 24-node sendmail cluster sending cough cough totally legitimate email to large numbers of people. My supervisor handed me the Bat Book and said "you'll probably need this. Have fun.").
  - Swizec 11y ago
    Ah yes, 1999, when to paraphrase Jason Calahanis in that one documentary "You'd get hired as an engineer for owning a keyboard and knowing how to type".
- FLUX-YOU 11y ago
  That's a pretty helpful process though. Otherwise you have customers and account managers screaming at you to fix things through email/voice. I've gotten a few of those and the sense of urgency was a nice break, but I'd die from stress if I couldn't firewall that communication with a ticket system. But they don't let you work on new features? That sucks :(

Dewie3 11y ago

Attitudes and beliefs seem to have a tendency to be self-fulfilling to a point. So of course making work fun is going to be hopeless if you've made up your mind already that most of it can't be fun.

Cthulhu_ 11y ago

> repetition takes the fun out of anything. Except MMO's, which are probably the pinnacle of repetitive, work-like video games. Kill 10 rats times a billion.

mrec 11y ago
That doesn't sound like fun, that sounds like addiction. And AIUI those games are very specifically designed to be addictive. MMOs: not even once.
- lfowles 11y ago
  Ok, I'd like my work to be addictive, as long as I'm required to keep my 5 8-hour days, I might as well look forward to it.
MadManE 11y ago
I'm pretty sure that the repetition in MMOs is not what most people consider the meat of the fun. It's an obstacle to get to the fun, because nobody can create enough real content to satisfy players. The big assumption here is that people are using their time optimally all the time. I think instead we simply run out of motivation and deal with whatever is going on instead of looking for the 'best' way to have fun/work. We're familiar with it, and dislike the cost associated with finding something new.

thirdtruck 11y ago

Your Protestant work ethic is showing.

visakanv 11y ago

> repetition takes the fun out of anything. I get where you're coming from, but this statement is easily disproven with any example of anybody who enjoys any repetitive task. I think the difference between painful and tolerable (or even fun!) repetition is context and measurement. You need to know why you're doing what you're doing, how it matters, how it helps. I remember reading in 'Made To Stick' about this famous cookhouse in Iraq, where the chef felt that him and his crew weren't merely responsible for providing rations, but for the morale of the troops. To them, their repetitive work had meaning. Repetition can also be fun when you get better at what you're doing. Look up videos on YouTube of folks in India making prata– they add all sorts of styles and flourish to their mundane tasks, and they clearly take a lot of pride in being so good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egltg4kW06Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egltg4kW06Q

pachydermic 11y ago

Tons of games are repetitive. All that free to play stuff. MMOs. Old arcade games. Tons of games have super tight "gameplay loops". Super meat boy - try, die, repeat right away until you win. Over and over and over again. Every level is just a variation of something before it. I don't think people dislike repetition at all. People repeat stuff all the time and like it. So there must be something else going on.