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Because unlike those other professions, we can always easily leave for something better. In fact, a dozen something betters. An engineer in this industry stayin

Because unlike those other professions, we can always easily leave for something better. In fact, a dozen something betters. An engineer in this industry staying at one place longer than 18 months is pretty rare. There is a lot of ship jumping to get higher pay, less work, more benefits and it is a constant struggle to keep good talent. We don't need unions. In tech, labor does hold the power. We always have the option for taking our ball and going home (start our own company). And the so called "wage-fixing" was an attempt to slow down the wage arms race that is killing cities like SF with ridiculous rent. It's not sustainable, and it will pop.

Chinjut 11y ago
How would unionization interfere with any of that? (Why would collective bargaining not still present an ever stronger bargaining position?)
- koonsolo 11y ago
  Hi, I'm from Belgium, and we have very strong unions here. There used to be a time when unions were necessary, but that time is long gone (at least here in Belgium). Our unions get extra money for each person on social welfare, and they are currently screwing our economy because the government tries to restore our countries competitiveness. When the unions go on strike, they block public roads, denying cars and trucks to go to work, and force shops to close down. Don't believe me, see for yourself how a union lady forces a shop to close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpVpn2-zOrs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpVpn2-zOrs (french with dutch subtitles, sorry about that, but you will get the point). In the end the shop lady closed her shop. Railroads, public transportation and postal offices have an average of 18 strike days a year. Times have changed, if you don't like your job, quit and work for someone else. Don't like that? Quit and start your own (one-man) company. And about your original question: unionization screws your economy so there are no jobs left. You lose your bargaining position because companies will look abroad to find workers willing to work. When my dad went to work on his first day, he was there 15 minutes early, so he started to work when he arrived. A man came up to him and told him "It's not 9 o'clock yet, we don't start working before that". Everyone was standing behind their desks, doing nothing, just standing there, waiting for 9 o'clock. Want to screw your economy? Reduce productivity? Then go ahead and form unions. About my dad, he worked his entire life at the same company, but because he had a different mindset than all of the other blue collar workers, he became a well-paid white collar worker, including company car etc, without ever being a manager. What unions really do is put employees and employers as 'us vs them'. We do the least amount of work so you can pay us the least amount of money. Why not look at it as helping each other? A win-win? And if it's not a win-win anymore, find someone else.
  - pif 11y ago
    Same in Italy. Just the same.
mtbcoder 11y ago
>> We don't need unions. In tech, labor does hold the power. This maxim may have been true 20, 30 years ago, but with an ever-increasing pool of STEM applicants, advances in automation and the juggernaut that is globalization, the pendulum is swinging. >> We always have the option for taking our ball and going home (start our own company). No, we don't. Such a simplistic decision like this has never existed in tech other than in grossly inaccurate Hollywood film plots. Starting a tech company comes with an enormous amount of risk and challenges. These risks aren't easily absorbed by most individuals. A person's company may succeed in the end after hard-fought battles, but in all likelihood, most will fail.

Chinjut 11y ago

How would unionization interfere with any of that? (Why would collective bargaining not still present an ever stronger bargaining position?)

koonsolo 11y ago
Hi, I'm from Belgium, and we have very strong unions here. There used to be a time when unions were necessary, but that time is long gone (at least here in Belgium). Our unions get extra money for each person on social welfare, and they are currently screwing our economy because the government tries to restore our countries competitiveness. When the unions go on strike, they block public roads, denying cars and trucks to go to work, and force shops to close down. Don't believe me, see for yourself how a union lady forces a shop to close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpVpn2-zOrs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpVpn2-zOrs (french with dutch subtitles, sorry about that, but you will get the point). In the end the shop lady closed her shop. Railroads, public transportation and postal offices have an average of 18 strike days a year. Times have changed, if you don't like your job, quit and work for someone else. Don't like that? Quit and start your own (one-man) company. And about your original question: unionization screws your economy so there are no jobs left. You lose your bargaining position because companies will look abroad to find workers willing to work. When my dad went to work on his first day, he was there 15 minutes early, so he started to work when he arrived. A man came up to him and told him "It's not 9 o'clock yet, we don't start working before that". Everyone was standing behind their desks, doing nothing, just standing there, waiting for 9 o'clock. Want to screw your economy? Reduce productivity? Then go ahead and form unions. About my dad, he worked his entire life at the same company, but because he had a different mindset than all of the other blue collar workers, he became a well-paid white collar worker, including company car etc, without ever being a manager. What unions really do is put employees and employers as 'us vs them'. We do the least amount of work so you can pay us the least amount of money. Why not look at it as helping each other? A win-win? And if it's not a win-win anymore, find someone else.
- pif 11y ago
  Same in Italy. Just the same.

mtbcoder 11y ago

>> We don't need unions. In tech, labor does hold the power. This maxim may have been true 20, 30 years ago, but with an ever-increasing pool of STEM applicants, advances in automation and the juggernaut that is globalization, the pendulum is swinging. >> We always have the option for taking our ball and going home (start our own company). No, we don't. Such a simplistic decision like this has never existed in tech other than in grossly inaccurate Hollywood film plots. Starting a tech company comes with an enormous amount of risk and challenges. These risks aren't easily absorbed by most individuals. A person's company may succeed in the end after hard-fought battles, but in all likelihood, most will fail.