3 ms·

I took Andrew Ng's course and dropped it half-way upon discovering that it was nothing mind blowing beyond the 'constraint optimization' courses I took in grad

I took Andrew Ng's course and dropped it half-way upon discovering that it was nothing mind blowing beyond the 'constraint optimization' courses I took in grad school when I attended Carnegie Mellon. I strongly remembered enjoying the introduction lectures but realized that it wasn't what I was looking for once a 'cost function' was mentioned. 'Constraint optimization' was before people slapped : machine learning, deep learning, NN, CNN, and A.I on every gradient descent algorithm. I have no faith that Strong A.I/AGI will come from the above efforts as they are anything but General. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts and the current crop of weak A.I algorithms are a small part of a bigger whole. As far as fear of AGI/Strong A.I. Listen, you can't stop something whose time has come. When it comes and it will, no million dollar consortium of businesses who have leveraged weak A.I to line their pockets will be able to stop it. We can postulate to the ends of the earth about what it will be and how we must prepare for it or we can focus on creating it. Those who are most likely to create it aren't worrying to the ends of the earth about its dangers. They aren't funding million dollar initiatives to make 'tests' for something that isn't even understood yet. They are out there thinking deep and far and working through what it takes to create it... Likely : Thinking Different than the current crop of people centered on capitalizing (increasing profit margins) on a very productive discovery : Weak A.I. The fear that arises from this group is in knowing that AGI will trump Weak A.I (their cash cow). Thus, the fear propaganda. So, where do I feel AGI will likely crop up from? The basement dwelling loner asking the deep and general questions about life, matter, energy, information without a particular profit maximizing goal in mind. Their goal being to more deeply understand the very nature/fabric of life, intelligence, and this universe... Otherwise, hey.. I could sit back and believe that wisdom just emerges when you've dumped enough money in the laps of A.I experts. Think different. You're not going to achieve anything new and ground breaking thinking and looking at the problem the same way everyone else is. Sure, there will be many failures but therein lies the risk/reward of going beyond the herd.

1971genocide 11y ago
Thanks for that well written insight. I had the same feeling while studying computational neuroscience. There is no way in hell the current approaches is going to lead to AGI anytime soon ! The models we have for even the most simplest operations of the brain is not well though out. Even using the term "Artifical Nueral Nets" is an insult to the real machinary that is a neuron. However, I do not think someone in some basement is going to figure out the solution. I think the people who are working to solve the problem are the army of nameless minimum wage graduate and PhD students across the industrialized world who are studying all the various topics involving hardware, software, biology, etc. All of which are required to create a a true AGI system. We are no where near creating Strong A.I. but its going to come incrementally.
- astrocyte 11y ago
  Agreed. However, there is most probably going to be a group of well educated generalist who tie it all together. The problem with the new paradigms that lie ahead is that they are begging us to tie a considerable number of things together. Yet, there are a limited number of institutional or company bodies that invest in or even see the value in a generalist. How are you to create something that is generalized when your core foundation is specialization? Given that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, you better believe you are going to have a hard time incrementing your way to it. I use the term 'basement dweller' loosely to describe someone thinking outside of the box. The term was loosely used by the original commenter to essentially demarcate those in spotlight and those who aren't. So, I decided to play off of it. You have PHD holders outside of the box. The key difference is their mindset. They think different and beyond the box. There are many contributors to science who go unmentioned. There are many back-stories which, due to not conforming with dominant ideologies, go untold. http://nautil.us/issue/21/information/the-man-who-tried-to-redeem-the-world-with-logic http://nautil.us/issue/21/information/the-man-who-tried-to-r... Best of luck to everyone in pursuit of AGI. The core of creation is elusive for a reason. Many will miss it not due to their education but their mindset.
Houshalter 11y ago
That's just the AI effect. People assume that intelligence is magic. Once they learn that simple algorithms can generate intelligent behavior they refuse to believe it's intelligent. There is no law of nature that hard problems require complicated solutions. >As far as fear of AGI/Strong A.I. Listen, you can't stop something whose time has come. Huh? All of the people advocating AI safety are saying to invest in making AI safe, not to ban AI research. However that's not even correct. The development of general purpose computers was delayed for nearly a century because it didn't get enough funding. Human cloning and many other areas of technology/research have successfully been banned. I'm not saying that it's a good idea, but you can't argue that it's impossible to prevent technologies. >The fear that arises from this group is in knowing that AGI will trump Weak A.I (their cash cow). Thus, the fear propaganda. Are you seriously suggesting some kind of conspiracy by "weak AI" people to prevent the development of AGI by manipulating the media?
- astrocyte 11y ago
  * Huh? The AI effect ? What is consciousness? Give me the full detail of it and create it right now from matter. You can't. So, there is still much to be understood. No one is claiming magic. What is being said is that you can't keep doing the same thing hoping for different results. Think different. You think consciousness just consists of some neural nets? K, think the same and good luck. "Huh? All of the people advocating AI safety are saying to invest in making AI safe, not to ban AI research." > Huh? the issue is : no one even knows what true 'Strong/General' A.I is. Are human beings safe? Look at all of the idiotic things we do. Look at what some of the most monied of us do. Furthermore, who restricted them on building their empires of other people's data and weak A.I analytics therein? Nobody. They made up the rules as they went, many times after-the-fact... That's 'business' right? and the same is going to be so for the progression to AGI.. We still don't understand how memory is stored in the human brain. So, how can you restrict research into it? No one even understands it. Thus, you can't. Everyone is free to do as they please in way of research and there's nothing anyone can do about it. * As for human cloning, can you say as a definite that no one in a dark lab isn't experimenting on it? No. You can't. As I recall, stem cell research was banned and it ended up in Singapore. Now, it's everywhere. Life, as it were, goes on. No silly amount of money or consortium can stop it. Are you seriously suggesting some kind of conspiracy by "weak AI" people to prevent the development of AGI by manipulating the media? > I'm seriously highlighting the ignorance of going on about something you don't understand and trying to restrict it. Who restricted social media? Who restricted mass data collection? Analytic? Who studied the negative societal effects they have? They just did it and went w/ it.. But, all of a sudden, it's time to put restrictions on A.I? Poppycock. When AGI is broken into, the [run] button will be hit and that will be that. What, is Elon Musk going to pull the plug? Provide me some definite way you can restrict the coming of AGI and I'll resign my view. I frankly don't care what drives people to 'fear' it. Give me detail on how the least of those who understand it can stop it.
LiweiZ 11y ago
Nice comment. I'm wondering if there is any discussion on the superintelligence's weakness and its potential systemic behaviours as a group? Human beings have our biological sensors to distract(not always the case) us from being pure logical creatures. Thinking superintelligence as a complex system may provide different angle as well. But I don't have the information and the knowledge to answer these myself. [edit]: grammar mistake
smil 11y ago
Highly Artificial Intelligence http://research.modesvu.com/post/118179144182/highlandvalley http://research.modesvu.com/post/118179144182/highlandvalley
- astrocyte 11y ago
  Oh man. That made me lol.

1971genocide 11y ago

Thanks for that well written insight. I had the same feeling while studying computational neuroscience. There is no way in hell the current approaches is going to lead to AGI anytime soon ! The models we have for even the most simplest operations of the brain is not well though out. Even using the term "Artifical Nueral Nets" is an insult to the real machinary that is a neuron. However, I do not think someone in some basement is going to figure out the solution. I think the people who are working to solve the problem are the army of nameless minimum wage graduate and PhD students across the industrialized world who are studying all the various topics involving hardware, software, biology, etc. All of which are required to create a a true AGI system. We are no where near creating Strong A.I. but its going to come incrementally.

astrocyte 11y ago
Agreed. However, there is most probably going to be a group of well educated generalist who tie it all together. The problem with the new paradigms that lie ahead is that they are begging us to tie a considerable number of things together. Yet, there are a limited number of institutional or company bodies that invest in or even see the value in a generalist. How are you to create something that is generalized when your core foundation is specialization? Given that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, you better believe you are going to have a hard time incrementing your way to it. I use the term 'basement dweller' loosely to describe someone thinking outside of the box. The term was loosely used by the original commenter to essentially demarcate those in spotlight and those who aren't. So, I decided to play off of it. You have PHD holders outside of the box. The key difference is their mindset. They think different and beyond the box. There are many contributors to science who go unmentioned. There are many back-stories which, due to not conforming with dominant ideologies, go untold. http://nautil.us/issue/21/information/the-man-who-tried-to-redeem-the-world-with-logic http://nautil.us/issue/21/information/the-man-who-tried-to-r... Best of luck to everyone in pursuit of AGI. The core of creation is elusive for a reason. Many will miss it not due to their education but their mindset.

Houshalter 11y ago

That's just the AI effect. People assume that intelligence is magic. Once they learn that simple algorithms can generate intelligent behavior they refuse to believe it's intelligent. There is no law of nature that hard problems require complicated solutions. >As far as fear of AGI/Strong A.I. Listen, you can't stop something whose time has come. Huh? All of the people advocating AI safety are saying to invest in making AI safe, not to ban AI research. However that's not even correct. The development of general purpose computers was delayed for nearly a century because it didn't get enough funding. Human cloning and many other areas of technology/research have successfully been banned. I'm not saying that it's a good idea, but you can't argue that it's impossible to prevent technologies. >The fear that arises from this group is in knowing that AGI will trump Weak A.I (their cash cow). Thus, the fear propaganda. Are you seriously suggesting some kind of conspiracy by "weak AI" people to prevent the development of AGI by manipulating the media?

astrocyte 11y ago
* Huh? The AI effect ? What is consciousness? Give me the full detail of it and create it right now from matter. You can't. So, there is still much to be understood. No one is claiming magic. What is being said is that you can't keep doing the same thing hoping for different results. Think different. You think consciousness just consists of some neural nets? K, think the same and good luck. "Huh? All of the people advocating AI safety are saying to invest in making AI safe, not to ban AI research." > Huh? the issue is : no one even knows what true 'Strong/General' A.I is. Are human beings safe? Look at all of the idiotic things we do. Look at what some of the most monied of us do. Furthermore, who restricted them on building their empires of other people's data and weak A.I analytics therein? Nobody. They made up the rules as they went, many times after-the-fact... That's 'business' right? and the same is going to be so for the progression to AGI.. We still don't understand how memory is stored in the human brain. So, how can you restrict research into it? No one even understands it. Thus, you can't. Everyone is free to do as they please in way of research and there's nothing anyone can do about it. * As for human cloning, can you say as a definite that no one in a dark lab isn't experimenting on it? No. You can't. As I recall, stem cell research was banned and it ended up in Singapore. Now, it's everywhere. Life, as it were, goes on. No silly amount of money or consortium can stop it. Are you seriously suggesting some kind of conspiracy by "weak AI" people to prevent the development of AGI by manipulating the media? > I'm seriously highlighting the ignorance of going on about something you don't understand and trying to restrict it. Who restricted social media? Who restricted mass data collection? Analytic? Who studied the negative societal effects they have? They just did it and went w/ it.. But, all of a sudden, it's time to put restrictions on A.I? Poppycock. When AGI is broken into, the [run] button will be hit and that will be that. What, is Elon Musk going to pull the plug? Provide me some definite way you can restrict the coming of AGI and I'll resign my view. I frankly don't care what drives people to 'fear' it. Give me detail on how the least of those who understand it can stop it.

LiweiZ 11y ago

Nice comment. I'm wondering if there is any discussion on the superintelligence's weakness and its potential systemic behaviours as a group? Human beings have our biological sensors to distract(not always the case) us from being pure logical creatures. Thinking superintelligence as a complex system may provide different angle as well. But I don't have the information and the knowledge to answer these myself. [edit]: grammar mistake

smil 11y ago

Highly Artificial Intelligence http://research.modesvu.com/post/118179144182/highlandvalley http://research.modesvu.com/post/118179144182/highlandvalley

astrocyte 11y ago
Oh man. That made me lol.