7 ms·

Malta Offers Citizenship and All Its Perks for a Price

47 points by sytelus 12y ago

michaelochurch 12y ago
This is going to be a disaster for Malta. These people don't fuck around when it comes to damaging the places where they live, and with a population under half a million on tiny island, the place can't exactly take a lot of abuse.
- notsony 12y ago
  Why? Sounds like a good idea to attract wealthy migrants, albeit temporarily, many of whom after getting EU citizenship will move onto other locations in the EU. What are the downsides?
  - wavefunction 12y ago
    Fugging shithead sociopaths from other cultures moving in to colonize once-proud social-democracies... With the help of domestic sociopaths.
- dublinben 12y ago
  The entire article is about how these people don't even plan on living in Malta. They are buying access to Europe, not Malta.
  - michaelochurch 12y ago
    That makes it even worse. It'll drive up property prices and make the locals, relative to cost of living, a lot poorer. There's so much filthy global money in Manhattan and California real estate right now that it's mind-boggling. And as Malta is a tiny island nation, and real estate exhibits extreme price inelasticity, this sort of thing can happen quickly. Real estate hyperinflation is a plague that must be fought with any means necessary.
    - go1979 12y ago
      Canadian real estate prices are a case in point. Crazy/greedy real estate brokers egg buyers on to take ever larger mortgages at current low rates. Buying a starter home should not take 30 years to pay off for the average buyer.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - wavefunction 12y ago
      cutting throats figuratively (and literally where apropos) is the order of the day for all human beings who wish to maintain their dignity
    - meric 12y ago
      Your comment is unpopular with other real estate investors on this board.
      - saryant 12y ago
        His comment doesn't make a ton of sense given that you can buy property in Manhattan and California (and the rest of the country...) without holding American citizenship. Moreover, Malta is clearly selling this as a means of entry to the entire EU. Few will likely choose to relocate to Valletta.
        meric 12y ago
        Property in Manhattan is a lot more expensive, relative to median incomes, than in countries where property ownership is limited to locals, like in Indonesia. The yield is at least double. I suppose the thing with Malta is anyone who was from the EU can already go there.
  - jane_is_here 12y ago
    Good way for Greece to make some money.
    - wavefunction 12y ago
      but Greece and Malta are two different actors :O
      - desdiv 12y ago
        I think what jane_is_here was trying to say is this: Malta is essentially selling EU-wide* permanent residency permits and is making mad money out of it. Greece is in dire need of money, and is also entitled to the issuing of EU-wide permanent residency permits, so it makes sense for Greece to follow suit. * Technically speaking, Schengen-Area-wide.
        rizwank 12y ago
        How did this point somehow not make it into the article, is what I'd like to know.
        klipt 12y ago
        It's only EU-wide as long as Malta is in the EU. Which may not be for long if the EU decides it doesn't like Malta selling EU-wide residency permits.
        pjc50 12y ago
        There is no process for expelling countries from the EU, or even voluntarily leaving. Only route is full treaty renegotiation.
        klipt 12y ago
        All I'm saying is, if I were a rich country, and opened my border to a small poorer country who then sold the rights to my open border to the highest bidders, I would reconsider the situation very quickly.
- jotm 12y ago
  Oh, right, yeah those people coming in illegally by boat are a much better choice than rich people smart enough not to shit where they live...
xasos 12y ago
This is a very interesting move. Estonia is doing something similar, by offering E-Residency to foreigners for a price [1]. With some very restrictive governments, this gives wealthy foreigners some leeway to go around the rules. > “We want to attract individuals who can add value to our country because of their ideas, and their networks and their businesses and their talent” If this goal can come to fruition, this would be a great boost to Malta. I don't necessarily see it happening, and see more abuse of the citizenship than anything (probably to gain access to the EU's business benefits). However, it could potentially be a game changer. I wonder if other countries will follow suit. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/26/estonia-offers-e-residency-to-world-what-does-it-mean http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/26/estonia-offers-...
- eps 12y ago
  What Estonia has is not similar at all. Maltese citizenship grants you the right to live anywhere in EU and Switzerland. Not just visit, but settle. On the other hand Estonia's e-residency doesn't even give you a right to enter Estonia itself.
  - xasos 12y ago
    I think I mentioned that, check the linked article :) It's similar in the fact that you are paying for residency in a way. You get the benefit of having an Estonian residency online, rather than your own, if so inclined.
allendoerfer 12y ago
Sounds scary to a European. But on the other hand, they have money, we just have to tax them.
- bayesianhorse 12y ago
  Why is that "scary"? The usual arguments (which I don't subscribe to) about social welfare etc don't really apply to people willing to pay that much. I don't care for any immigration restriction at all. The war on immigration is failing globally. The US pays about 18 billion Dollars a year to enforce these laws, and has about a dozen Million illegal immigrants. Germany is quickly approaching the point where it should be deporting something like 500.000 persons a year, roughly the dimension of third-reich deportations, to not increase the population of illegal immigrants. But of course we can't deport that many people, even if we wanted to. There will be a point where the European Union is forced to abandon the war on immigration. I just hope we don't lose our souls while trying to avoid that conclusion.
  - allendoerfer 12y ago
    Yeah, that position is easy. You are on the side that wants the poor African childs to live, while I am the bad guy in your story. I am not against individual immigrants either. But you have to be realistic. You just can not deny the fact that massive immigration is a challenge for a society. If we only had an example of a country whose leading film industry produces movies about China towns, Ghettos, racism, the Italian mafia and the like, that I could show you … Blaming the EU for its war on immigration is shortsighted. The European Union is as pro immigration as it can get. It is a continent with countries that spend the last thousands of years killing each other and people of 28 states are now free to move wherever they want. And it is expanding. Social integration does not magically work. It is a good thing, when it works, but you need the commitment to invest big sums into it. See how hard it is to do this inside the EU. If we wanted to fix Greece, it would be a small hickup in our statistics. If the EU now opens its borders without investing billions in integration programs, we will not get our melting pot but our very own salad bowl with Baltimores and Fergusons all over the place. I would say, pick an easier one first and take a look at Greece or Romania and Bulgaria, whose people are free to move here but have problems of similar scale [0] and the bad EU opened up to recently. That investment will pay dividends enabling us to take on the next one. [0]: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2285796/Romanian-gypsies-living-condemned-ghetto-mayor-built-wall-around.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2285796/Romanian-gyp...
wiradikusuma 12y ago
Isn't this "single point of failures" for all criminal activities targeting rich people? It's like everybody putting their code in GitHub, and all hackers going after GitHub. Wouldn't it make Malta a good target for kidnappers etc? It's not exactly country with high security etc, unless I'm missing something.
- milesskorpen 12y ago
  Why? The whole point is that few/no rich people are spending significant time in Malta.
- jpatokal 12y ago
  Out of curiosity, what exactly is a "country with high security" then? It's considerably easier to waltz into (say) Switzerland over the unguarded border from France than to make your way to an island nation three hours by hydrofoil from the nearest neighbor. Also, for what it's worth, Malta actually has a pretty good track record for this kind of thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Siege_of_Malta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Siege_of_Malta
  - vizzah 12y ago
    It's actually just 90 minutes on a commercial hydrofoil ferry ;)
jane_is_here 12y ago
Australia has long offered something similar: "This is a way to achieve Full Permanent Residence without having strict regulations on yourself to work in Australia. To be eligible for this visa, you need to have had AUD750,000 in eligible assets for the last 5 years = all assets such as stocks, bonds, savings, 2nd / 3rd homes - but not the house that you have lived in. You also need to have had AUD1,125,000 (1.125 million) in total assets (which can include the house that you live in) for at least the last 2 years. If you are eligible, then at the time of the decision you made a government approved Designated Investment for at least AUD750,000 in a State or Territory of Australia. This amount must be available for transfer to Australia within a reasonable period when requested."
- technotony 12y ago
  the USA has a similar scheme. If you invest $1MM in a business (or $500k if it's an area they are trying to get more investment into) then you get a green card: http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green-card-through-investment http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green...
  - grecy 12y ago
    Canada has something similar too.
Istof 12y ago
Does $500k in the USA still buy you permanent residency?
- inerte 12y ago
  Yes, if you're investing in Target Employment Area, $1 mil for the rest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa Strangely, I heard the requirement of 10 jobs being created doesn't come with a salary requirement, so I heard of folks being hired at $1 per year.
paulhauggis 12y ago
I love it. It gives me options when we have undesirable tax laws in the US.
- beagle3 12y ago
  No it doesn't. US citizens and residents are taxed globally, regardless of where they reside. And the last NYT report on it, if I remember correctly, the line to give up one's US citizenship was 5 years long (and you can't actually do that until you're taxes are all filed and paid)
  - paulhauggis 12y ago
    I never said I wouldn't pay all of my taxes. but you can still move your company to another country and not get double business taxed (which will save lots of money) and get your money in a different way than just a pay check. It's only fair. If the US government decides to make it difficult for businesses by raising taxes to the point of ridiculousness, I'm going to leave.
    - kjs3 12y ago
      I've been listening to guys like you whine like this for the whole of my 30+ year career (including starting a couple of companies). If the business friendly ecosystem, low tax, libertarian nirvana you guys pine for existed outside of the US, you'd all be gone. It doesn't, and it's not going to any time soon. For most entrepreneurs, starting and building a business in the US has probably never been easier. So quit "threatening" to pull an Atlas Shrugged on us; that shtick has been tedious and silly for decades.
    - beagle3 12y ago
      What's "double business taxes"? With relatively minor exceptions, if two countries have a tax treaty among them (which is usually the case in the western world), there are no double taxes. (Although you are likely paying the higher, rather than the lower, of the relevant two).
- learnstats2 12y ago
patkai 12y ago
I think Hungarian citizenship is about 300k, it's a new thing. EU passport and good location.
- leni536 12y ago
  Any source for this? I don't mind if it's Hungarian.
  - patkai 12y ago
    I think the ministry of foreign affairs outsources this operation to different companies, and each company takes care of a certain region e.g. China etc. You need to invest in bonds only, and get your investment back in 5 years, so the actual cost is pretty low. http://www.residency-bond.eu/ http://www.residency-bond.eu/ And the info is probably not available in Hungarian as it is directed to foreigners :)
    - leni536 12y ago
      You get lifetime residency and Schengen visa not citizenship and EU passport. That's a big difference.
  - toadi 12y ago
    You can get residency in Bulgaria for just starting a company and showing a bit cash to prove you can support yourself. I think it cost me all a few 100 euro's :)
- eps 12y ago
  Residency, not citizenship. Huge difference, that's why it's that much cheaper.
riffraff 12y ago
On a sidenote, a lot of EU countries will grant citizenship to descendants of nationals (specific rules vary, but this includes off the top of my head Italy, Poland, Greece, Germany, Ireland, Croatia, Hungary etc). This obviously doesn't apply for the world at large, but many people from the Americas are likely to have some european roots.
- jfoster 12y ago
  The term for this is "citizenship by descent", in case anyone wants to look into it. Usually it will require that either your parents or grandparents were citizens when you were born.
  - riffraff 12y ago
    thanks, the expression I commonly heard was "jus sanguinis" in contrast with "jus soli" (citizenship by birthplace). But: in many cases it's not just close ancestors, i.e. you can get italian citizenship if you have _any_ ancestor who was born in italy since the 1800, as long as they didn't renounce it.
kijin 12y ago
I'd like to see an offer of the opposite kind: Citizenship or green card for a relatively low cost, but you need to pay relatively high taxes on your global income for the rest of your life. Why would anyone choose that? Well, there are many reasons. A booming economy with good jobs, excellent educational opportunities for children, and a robust social safety net (funded by those high taxes) will attract hard-working people from developing countries to come and work to make your economy grow even more. Both Canada and Australia could have used this tactic a long time ago, but unfortunately both of them are still too strict on skilled workers and trying too hard to attract millionaires. Guess what, those millionaires will not contribute a single penny to your economy besides the initial payment, whereas a thousand skilled workers will actually pay you millions of dollars in taxes every year.
bayesianhorse 12y ago
The war on immigration is failing. Stop restricting it.

47 points by sytelus 12y ago

This is going to be a disaster for Malta. These people don't fuck around when it comes to damaging the places where they live, and with a population under half a million on tiny island, the place can't exactly take a lot of abuse.

notsony 12y ago
Why? Sounds like a good idea to attract wealthy migrants, albeit temporarily, many of whom after getting EU citizenship will move onto other locations in the EU. What are the downsides?
- wavefunction 12y ago
  Fugging shithead sociopaths from other cultures moving in to colonize once-proud social-democracies... With the help of domestic sociopaths.
dublinben 12y ago
The entire article is about how these people don't even plan on living in Malta. They are buying access to Europe, not Malta.
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  That makes it even worse. It'll drive up property prices and make the locals, relative to cost of living, a lot poorer. There's so much filthy global money in Manhattan and California real estate right now that it's mind-boggling. And as Malta is a tiny island nation, and real estate exhibits extreme price inelasticity, this sort of thing can happen quickly. Real estate hyperinflation is a plague that must be fought with any means necessary.
  - go1979 12y ago
    Canadian real estate prices are a case in point. Crazy/greedy real estate brokers egg buyers on to take ever larger mortgages at current low rates. Buying a starter home should not take 30 years to pay off for the average buyer.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - wavefunction 12y ago
    cutting throats figuratively (and literally where apropos) is the order of the day for all human beings who wish to maintain their dignity
  - meric 12y ago
    Your comment is unpopular with other real estate investors on this board.
    - saryant 12y ago
      His comment doesn't make a ton of sense given that you can buy property in Manhattan and California (and the rest of the country...) without holding American citizenship. Moreover, Malta is clearly selling this as a means of entry to the entire EU. Few will likely choose to relocate to Valletta.
      - meric 12y ago
        Property in Manhattan is a lot more expensive, relative to median incomes, than in countries where property ownership is limited to locals, like in Indonesia. The yield is at least double. I suppose the thing with Malta is anyone who was from the EU can already go there.
- jane_is_here 12y ago
  Good way for Greece to make some money.
  - wavefunction 12y ago
    but Greece and Malta are two different actors :O
    - desdiv 12y ago
      I think what jane_is_here was trying to say is this: Malta is essentially selling EU-wide* permanent residency permits and is making mad money out of it. Greece is in dire need of money, and is also entitled to the issuing of EU-wide permanent residency permits, so it makes sense for Greece to follow suit. * Technically speaking, Schengen-Area-wide.
      - rizwank 12y ago
        How did this point somehow not make it into the article, is what I'd like to know.
      - klipt 12y ago
        It's only EU-wide as long as Malta is in the EU. Which may not be for long if the EU decides it doesn't like Malta selling EU-wide residency permits.
        pjc50 12y ago
        There is no process for expelling countries from the EU, or even voluntarily leaving. Only route is full treaty renegotiation.
        klipt 12y ago
        All I'm saying is, if I were a rich country, and opened my border to a small poorer country who then sold the rights to my open border to the highest bidders, I would reconsider the situation very quickly.
jotm 12y ago
Oh, right, yeah those people coming in illegally by boat are a much better choice than rich people smart enough not to shit where they live...

xasos 12y ago

This is a very interesting move. Estonia is doing something similar, by offering E-Residency to foreigners for a price [1]. With some very restrictive governments, this gives wealthy foreigners some leeway to go around the rules. > “We want to attract individuals who can add value to our country because of their ideas, and their networks and their businesses and their talent” If this goal can come to fruition, this would be a great boost to Malta. I don't necessarily see it happening, and see more abuse of the citizenship than anything (probably to gain access to the EU's business benefits). However, it could potentially be a game changer. I wonder if other countries will follow suit. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/26/estonia-offers-e-residency-to-world-what-does-it-mean http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/26/estonia-offers-...

eps 12y ago
What Estonia has is not similar at all. Maltese citizenship grants you the right to live anywhere in EU and Switzerland. Not just visit, but settle. On the other hand Estonia's e-residency doesn't even give you a right to enter Estonia itself.
- xasos 12y ago
  I think I mentioned that, check the linked article :) It's similar in the fact that you are paying for residency in a way. You get the benefit of having an Estonian residency online, rather than your own, if so inclined.

allendoerfer 12y ago

Sounds scary to a European. But on the other hand, they have money, we just have to tax them.

bayesianhorse 12y ago
Why is that "scary"? The usual arguments (which I don't subscribe to) about social welfare etc don't really apply to people willing to pay that much. I don't care for any immigration restriction at all. The war on immigration is failing globally. The US pays about 18 billion Dollars a year to enforce these laws, and has about a dozen Million illegal immigrants. Germany is quickly approaching the point where it should be deporting something like 500.000 persons a year, roughly the dimension of third-reich deportations, to not increase the population of illegal immigrants. But of course we can't deport that many people, even if we wanted to. There will be a point where the European Union is forced to abandon the war on immigration. I just hope we don't lose our souls while trying to avoid that conclusion.
- allendoerfer 12y ago
  Yeah, that position is easy. You are on the side that wants the poor African childs to live, while I am the bad guy in your story. I am not against individual immigrants either. But you have to be realistic. You just can not deny the fact that massive immigration is a challenge for a society. If we only had an example of a country whose leading film industry produces movies about China towns, Ghettos, racism, the Italian mafia and the like, that I could show you … Blaming the EU for its war on immigration is shortsighted. The European Union is as pro immigration as it can get. It is a continent with countries that spend the last thousands of years killing each other and people of 28 states are now free to move wherever they want. And it is expanding. Social integration does not magically work. It is a good thing, when it works, but you need the commitment to invest big sums into it. See how hard it is to do this inside the EU. If we wanted to fix Greece, it would be a small hickup in our statistics. If the EU now opens its borders without investing billions in integration programs, we will not get our melting pot but our very own salad bowl with Baltimores and Fergusons all over the place. I would say, pick an easier one first and take a look at Greece or Romania and Bulgaria, whose people are free to move here but have problems of similar scale [0] and the bad EU opened up to recently. That investment will pay dividends enabling us to take on the next one. [0]: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2285796/Romanian-gypsies-living-condemned-ghetto-mayor-built-wall-around.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2285796/Romanian-gyp...

wiradikusuma 12y ago

Isn't this "single point of failures" for all criminal activities targeting rich people? It's like everybody putting their code in GitHub, and all hackers going after GitHub. Wouldn't it make Malta a good target for kidnappers etc? It's not exactly country with high security etc, unless I'm missing something.

milesskorpen 12y ago
Why? The whole point is that few/no rich people are spending significant time in Malta.
jpatokal 12y ago
Out of curiosity, what exactly is a "country with high security" then? It's considerably easier to waltz into (say) Switzerland over the unguarded border from France than to make your way to an island nation three hours by hydrofoil from the nearest neighbor. Also, for what it's worth, Malta actually has a pretty good track record for this kind of thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Siege_of_Malta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Siege_of_Malta
- vizzah 12y ago
  It's actually just 90 minutes on a commercial hydrofoil ferry ;)

jane_is_here 12y ago

Australia has long offered something similar: "This is a way to achieve Full Permanent Residence without having strict regulations on yourself to work in Australia. To be eligible for this visa, you need to have had AUD750,000 in eligible assets for the last 5 years = all assets such as stocks, bonds, savings, 2nd / 3rd homes - but not the house that you have lived in. You also need to have had AUD1,125,000 (1.125 million) in total assets (which can include the house that you live in) for at least the last 2 years. If you are eligible, then at the time of the decision you made a government approved Designated Investment for at least AUD750,000 in a State or Territory of Australia. This amount must be available for transfer to Australia within a reasonable period when requested."

technotony 12y ago
the USA has a similar scheme. If you invest $1MM in a business (or $500k if it's an area they are trying to get more investment into) then you get a green card: http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green-card-through-investment http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green...
- grecy 12y ago
  Canada has something similar too.

Istof 12y ago

Does $500k in the USA still buy you permanent residency?

inerte 12y ago
Yes, if you're investing in Target Employment Area, $1 mil for the rest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa Strangely, I heard the requirement of 10 jobs being created doesn't come with a salary requirement, so I heard of folks being hired at $1 per year.

paulhauggis 12y ago

I love it. It gives me options when we have undesirable tax laws in the US.

beagle3 12y ago
No it doesn't. US citizens and residents are taxed globally, regardless of where they reside. And the last NYT report on it, if I remember correctly, the line to give up one's US citizenship was 5 years long (and you can't actually do that until you're taxes are all filed and paid)
- paulhauggis 12y ago
  I never said I wouldn't pay all of my taxes. but you can still move your company to another country and not get double business taxed (which will save lots of money) and get your money in a different way than just a pay check. It's only fair. If the US government decides to make it difficult for businesses by raising taxes to the point of ridiculousness, I'm going to leave.
  - kjs3 12y ago
    I've been listening to guys like you whine like this for the whole of my 30+ year career (including starting a couple of companies). If the business friendly ecosystem, low tax, libertarian nirvana you guys pine for existed outside of the US, you'd all be gone. It doesn't, and it's not going to any time soon. For most entrepreneurs, starting and building a business in the US has probably never been easier. So quit "threatening" to pull an Atlas Shrugged on us; that shtick has been tedious and silly for decades.
  - beagle3 12y ago
    What's "double business taxes"? With relatively minor exceptions, if two countries have a tax treaty among them (which is usually the case in the western world), there are no double taxes. (Although you are likely paying the higher, rather than the lower, of the relevant two).
learnstats2 12y ago

patkai 12y ago

I think Hungarian citizenship is about 300k, it's a new thing. EU passport and good location.

leni536 12y ago
Any source for this? I don't mind if it's Hungarian.
- patkai 12y ago
  I think the ministry of foreign affairs outsources this operation to different companies, and each company takes care of a certain region e.g. China etc. You need to invest in bonds only, and get your investment back in 5 years, so the actual cost is pretty low. http://www.residency-bond.eu/ http://www.residency-bond.eu/ And the info is probably not available in Hungarian as it is directed to foreigners :)
  - leni536 12y ago
    You get lifetime residency and Schengen visa not citizenship and EU passport. That's a big difference.
- toadi 12y ago
  You can get residency in Bulgaria for just starting a company and showing a bit cash to prove you can support yourself. I think it cost me all a few 100 euro's :)
eps 12y ago
Residency, not citizenship. Huge difference, that's why it's that much cheaper.

riffraff 12y ago

On a sidenote, a lot of EU countries will grant citizenship to descendants of nationals (specific rules vary, but this includes off the top of my head Italy, Poland, Greece, Germany, Ireland, Croatia, Hungary etc). This obviously doesn't apply for the world at large, but many people from the Americas are likely to have some european roots.

jfoster 12y ago
The term for this is "citizenship by descent", in case anyone wants to look into it. Usually it will require that either your parents or grandparents were citizens when you were born.
- riffraff 12y ago
  thanks, the expression I commonly heard was "jus sanguinis" in contrast with "jus soli" (citizenship by birthplace). But: in many cases it's not just close ancestors, i.e. you can get italian citizenship if you have _any_ ancestor who was born in italy since the 1800, as long as they didn't renounce it.

kijin 12y ago

I'd like to see an offer of the opposite kind: Citizenship or green card for a relatively low cost, but you need to pay relatively high taxes on your global income for the rest of your life. Why would anyone choose that? Well, there are many reasons. A booming economy with good jobs, excellent educational opportunities for children, and a robust social safety net (funded by those high taxes) will attract hard-working people from developing countries to come and work to make your economy grow even more. Both Canada and Australia could have used this tactic a long time ago, but unfortunately both of them are still too strict on skilled workers and trying too hard to attract millionaires. Guess what, those millionaires will not contribute a single penny to your economy besides the initial payment, whereas a thousand skilled workers will actually pay you millions of dollars in taxes every year.

bayesianhorse 12y ago

The war on immigration is failing. Stop restricting it.