4 ms·

I had always assumed that EMT/LEO was like Star Trek. Where the Captain might have final say in most matters, in regards to medical/health matters the Chief Med

I had always assumed that EMT/LEO was like Star Trek. Where the Captain might have final say in most matters, in regards to medical/health matters the Chief Medical Officer can override the Captain.

JeremyMorgan 11y ago
In our area we have a medical director who oversees the entire county, and is surprisingly available for matters like this. If a problem like this were to reach him I am certain a local police department or even police chief wouldn't be able to override him.
- Domenic_S 11y ago
  Well... literally speaking police have the guns, so they can do whatever they want. That's the point. When minutes matter (like in the case of a stroke) I don't want cops & EMTs fighting with each other. Probably doubtful the police chief would want to get into a media brawl with the county medical director though.
JshWright 11y ago
It's complicated... The ranking medical provider on scene is in charge of all aspects of patient care. That seems pretty simple, but then you have to consider the matter of consent... I can't do anything without the informed consent of the patient. When a patient is in police custody, suddenly the state has some say in what that patient can and can't consent to (and the cop is an agent of the state). However... I can't think of a conceivable scenario where a cop would want to assume the liability of disregarding my advice.
- jrs235 11y ago
  "I can't think of a conceivable scenario where a cop would want to assume the liability of disregarding my advice." What [personal] liability does a cop take on by disregarding your advice? It seems that cops have strong immunity to liability. It also seems that when a cop is found liable that the state/municipality pays the price. Perhaps if police [officers] had to be individually bonded and insured then at least "costly" police would lose their capacity to be officers through market means (insurance and bonding is no longer cost effective).
  - JshWright 11y ago
    A cop who disregards my advice to the detriment of the patient is, at the very least, going to have a bad time with his supervisor, and it will have an impact on his career. Beyond that, it varies based on local and state laws. It's certainly possible that he could face civil liability (or his department could face that liability on his behalf... again, with pretty negative effects on his career).
    - paulmd 11y ago
      Sounds nice on paper, but do you think a meaningful punishment would get past the police union? I'm not a cop but my impression is very much "no".
      - JshWright 11y ago
        I don't think much official punishment is likely. I do think you underestimate how effective peer pressure and caring about your reputation can be. That's certainly not enough, but it is something.
        jrs235 11y ago
        "I do think you underestimate how effective peer pressure and caring about reputation can be." I think peer pressure and reputation are very effective at stopping the "good" officers from turning in and removing the bad officers.
    - jrs235 11y ago
      Along the lines of the other reply to your response: And are they going to get a "paid vacation"? Some folks are okay with never moving up and care more about a secure job [protected by a union].

I had always assumed that EMT/LEO was like Star Trek. Where the Captain might have final say in most matters, in regards to medical/health matters the Chief Medical Officer can override the Captain.

JeremyMorgan 11y ago

In our area we have a medical director who oversees the entire county, and is surprisingly available for matters like this. If a problem like this were to reach him I am certain a local police department or even police chief wouldn't be able to override him.

Domenic_S 11y ago
Well... literally speaking police have the guns, so they can do whatever they want. That's the point. When minutes matter (like in the case of a stroke) I don't want cops & EMTs fighting with each other. Probably doubtful the police chief would want to get into a media brawl with the county medical director though.

JshWright 11y ago

It's complicated... The ranking medical provider on scene is in charge of all aspects of patient care. That seems pretty simple, but then you have to consider the matter of consent... I can't do anything without the informed consent of the patient. When a patient is in police custody, suddenly the state has some say in what that patient can and can't consent to (and the cop is an agent of the state). However... I can't think of a conceivable scenario where a cop would want to assume the liability of disregarding my advice.

jrs235 11y ago
"I can't think of a conceivable scenario where a cop would want to assume the liability of disregarding my advice." What [personal] liability does a cop take on by disregarding your advice? It seems that cops have strong immunity to liability. It also seems that when a cop is found liable that the state/municipality pays the price. Perhaps if police [officers] had to be individually bonded and insured then at least "costly" police would lose their capacity to be officers through market means (insurance and bonding is no longer cost effective).
- JshWright 11y ago
  A cop who disregards my advice to the detriment of the patient is, at the very least, going to have a bad time with his supervisor, and it will have an impact on his career. Beyond that, it varies based on local and state laws. It's certainly possible that he could face civil liability (or his department could face that liability on his behalf... again, with pretty negative effects on his career).
  - paulmd 11y ago
    Sounds nice on paper, but do you think a meaningful punishment would get past the police union? I'm not a cop but my impression is very much "no".
    - JshWright 11y ago
      I don't think much official punishment is likely. I do think you underestimate how effective peer pressure and caring about your reputation can be. That's certainly not enough, but it is something.
      - jrs235 11y ago
        "I do think you underestimate how effective peer pressure and caring about reputation can be." I think peer pressure and reputation are very effective at stopping the "good" officers from turning in and removing the bad officers.
  - jrs235 11y ago
    Along the lines of the other reply to your response: And are they going to get a "paid vacation"? Some folks are okay with never moving up and care more about a secure job [protected by a union].