6 ms·

Cognitive Distortion

55 points by ptwobrussell 11y ago

Cantremeber 11y ago
The funnest thing about these is how quietly and slowly they creep on. It may start with putting off a few things but then one day you realize you haven't showered because you feel like you don't have enough time for it.
- Swizec 11y ago
  Sidenote: that's why behavioral studies never ask "How often do you run" but instead "When was the last time you ran?", or even better "Describe the last time you X". People are terrible at assessing their general performance, but great at recalling semi-specific events.
  - amirouche 11y ago
    I was under the impression I was the only one. Now I know other people think “great at recalling semi-specific events”. “Describe the last time you X” This makes me think of transderivational search, a simplistic definition is “thinking”.
- amirouche 11y ago
  «The funnest thing about these is how quietly and slowly they creep on.» Same goes for a lot of thing. «Describe the first time you were racist».
soneca 11y ago
I was shocked when I saw this on people suffering from anorexia nervosa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa). They have an obviously unhealthly thin figure (weighting as low as 35kg), and when they see themselves on the mirror, they affirm they are fat.
- _random_ 11y ago
  That's interesting. The opposite effect is quite common as well: there were numerous recent cases in the news where overweight people would consider themselves beautiful and normal. Some of them even coined the term "fat shaming" for the people who are trying to tell them the truth!
  - markc 11y ago
    I'm assuming this is snark, and you know full well that body acceptance is not the same thing as body dysmorphic disorder. Not nice.
    - k__ 11y ago
      It isn't, the problem is where does the one end and the other one start. Most people have different opinions about what is a healthy body, even health professionals.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 11y ago
    What is "beautiful" that fat people aren't allowed to consider themselves such? Those who gripe about such things have their own cognitive distortion... they have ingrained behaviors to value physical attractiveness (and fitness) beyond any utility it might provide them. Are you going to hate the fat girl's personality so much that you can't stand her? Probably not. (Apologies for being crude) Is her pussy going to feel like sandpaper on your dick? Probably not. You mistreat such people because you're afraid that if you were to become involved with them, your social status would decline. But the only reason humans care about that is because of mating prospects. Your truths are subjective, and self-harming.
    - shredprez 11y ago
      Fitness and fatness have a subjective relationship with beauty, but there is an objective relationship between extremes in weight (from over- or under-eating) and health. While the exact relationship is a little different for each of us, eating too much or too little is unhealthy for everyone. Which is why this notion that weight can only be criticized or celebrated in the context of beauty is nonsense. You can be both beautiful and deeply unhealthy. And that's what weight really is, a health issue. Hijacking genuine conversations about health and turning them into philosophical conversations about beauty is intellectually dishonest. It's easy to dismiss subjective opinions about beauty. It's difficult to address society-wide failures with weight management. If we eradicated behaviors like starving and binging, issues of unhealthy beauty standards would nearly evaporate. That's the kind of social goal we should all be working to accomplish.
beermann 11y ago
Sorry for the obligatory, somewhat self-serving post. Our startup, Pacifica (http://thinkpacifica.com http://thinkpacifica.com), focuses on a few tools that help people identify these cognitive distortions. Specifically, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy defines a cycle relating how your thoughts affect your feelings, behaviors, and physical wellbeing (as a fully connected bidirectional graph). Understanding how your thoughts are distorted can better prepare you for the next time they crop up, helping you step outside this cycle. In many cases CBT has been shown to be as effective as psychiatric drugs in the short term, and even more effective in the long term as it helps people focus on the source of their anxieties. We're trying to take these same tools, proven in clinical practices all over the world, and apply them to a much broader audience.
- beermann 11y ago
  I should have been clear: I don't know the OP. I was surprised to see this on HN today.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 11y ago
  > Understanding how your thoughts are distorted can better prepare you The trouble is that anyone with profound issues no longer has the capacity for extreme metacognition.
  - beermann 11y ago
    You're right. We are not a substitute for therapy in cases like this. Pacifica works very well for people with mild to moderate anxiety, but in the more extreme cases (e.g. OCD, PTSD), it is necessary to be working with a professional. But a lot of people experience anxiety on a daily basis while maintaing a capability for self analysis.
    - amirouche 11y ago
      It's [worse|better] than that, they have improved cognition capacity.
  - amirouche 11y ago
tvmalsv 11y ago
The topic is also covered pretty well in the book "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns. I think it helps to recognize or understand some of these behaviors when there's someone in your life that has these kind of thoughts.
- jamii 11y ago
  +1 Don't be put off by the stigma of the self-help section. The main value of the book is a collection of clinically-tested exercises for breaking bad habits, collecting accurate data about your mental state and systematically disentangling reality from cognitive distortion. If I had my way this book would be compulsory high-school reading.
jdorfman 11y ago
I recently finished a Partial Hospitalization Program that taught techniques to battle distorted/irrational thinking. In the past I would just rely on my medication but this time I had to meet the meds half way. Without Cognitive Behavioral Therapy I would be in serious trouble (or dead). If someone here knows anyone who is suffering from a mental illness; this therapy could really help them get back on their feet.
- amirouche 11y ago
  I was said, it isn't for everybody, but what is?
parallel 11y ago
I can't remember where I read this but it reminds me of the quote "You've only ever experienced on thing; your own mind".
- wordbank 11y ago
  The Pali Canon is the first source of quotes like this though.

55 points by ptwobrussell 11y ago

The funnest thing about these is how quietly and slowly they creep on. It may start with putting off a few things but then one day you realize you haven't showered because you feel like you don't have enough time for it.

Swizec 11y ago
Sidenote: that's why behavioral studies never ask "How often do you run" but instead "When was the last time you ran?", or even better "Describe the last time you X". People are terrible at assessing their general performance, but great at recalling semi-specific events.
- amirouche 11y ago
  I was under the impression I was the only one. Now I know other people think “great at recalling semi-specific events”. “Describe the last time you X” This makes me think of transderivational search, a simplistic definition is “thinking”.
amirouche 11y ago
«The funnest thing about these is how quietly and slowly they creep on.» Same goes for a lot of thing. «Describe the first time you were racist».

soneca 11y ago

I was shocked when I saw this on people suffering from anorexia nervosa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa). They have an obviously unhealthly thin figure (weighting as low as 35kg), and when they see themselves on the mirror, they affirm they are fat.

_random_ 11y ago
That's interesting. The opposite effect is quite common as well: there were numerous recent cases in the news where overweight people would consider themselves beautiful and normal. Some of them even coined the term "fat shaming" for the people who are trying to tell them the truth!
- markc 11y ago
  I'm assuming this is snark, and you know full well that body acceptance is not the same thing as body dysmorphic disorder. Not nice.
  - k__ 11y ago
    It isn't, the problem is where does the one end and the other one start. Most people have different opinions about what is a healthy body, even health professionals.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 11y ago
  What is "beautiful" that fat people aren't allowed to consider themselves such? Those who gripe about such things have their own cognitive distortion... they have ingrained behaviors to value physical attractiveness (and fitness) beyond any utility it might provide them. Are you going to hate the fat girl's personality so much that you can't stand her? Probably not. (Apologies for being crude) Is her pussy going to feel like sandpaper on your dick? Probably not. You mistreat such people because you're afraid that if you were to become involved with them, your social status would decline. But the only reason humans care about that is because of mating prospects. Your truths are subjective, and self-harming.
  - shredprez 11y ago
    Fitness and fatness have a subjective relationship with beauty, but there is an objective relationship between extremes in weight (from over- or under-eating) and health. While the exact relationship is a little different for each of us, eating too much or too little is unhealthy for everyone. Which is why this notion that weight can only be criticized or celebrated in the context of beauty is nonsense. You can be both beautiful and deeply unhealthy. And that's what weight really is, a health issue. Hijacking genuine conversations about health and turning them into philosophical conversations about beauty is intellectually dishonest. It's easy to dismiss subjective opinions about beauty. It's difficult to address society-wide failures with weight management. If we eradicated behaviors like starving and binging, issues of unhealthy beauty standards would nearly evaporate. That's the kind of social goal we should all be working to accomplish.

beermann 11y ago

Sorry for the obligatory, somewhat self-serving post. Our startup, Pacifica (http://thinkpacifica.com http://thinkpacifica.com), focuses on a few tools that help people identify these cognitive distortions. Specifically, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy defines a cycle relating how your thoughts affect your feelings, behaviors, and physical wellbeing (as a fully connected bidirectional graph). Understanding how your thoughts are distorted can better prepare you for the next time they crop up, helping you step outside this cycle. In many cases CBT has been shown to be as effective as psychiatric drugs in the short term, and even more effective in the long term as it helps people focus on the source of their anxieties. We're trying to take these same tools, proven in clinical practices all over the world, and apply them to a much broader audience.

beermann 11y ago
I should have been clear: I don't know the OP. I was surprised to see this on HN today.
NoMoreNicksLeft 11y ago
> Understanding how your thoughts are distorted can better prepare you The trouble is that anyone with profound issues no longer has the capacity for extreme metacognition.
- beermann 11y ago
  You're right. We are not a substitute for therapy in cases like this. Pacifica works very well for people with mild to moderate anxiety, but in the more extreme cases (e.g. OCD, PTSD), it is necessary to be working with a professional. But a lot of people experience anxiety on a daily basis while maintaing a capability for self analysis.
  - amirouche 11y ago
    It's [worse|better] than that, they have improved cognition capacity.
- amirouche 11y ago

tvmalsv 11y ago

The topic is also covered pretty well in the book "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns. I think it helps to recognize or understand some of these behaviors when there's someone in your life that has these kind of thoughts.

jamii 11y ago
+1 Don't be put off by the stigma of the self-help section. The main value of the book is a collection of clinically-tested exercises for breaking bad habits, collecting accurate data about your mental state and systematically disentangling reality from cognitive distortion. If I had my way this book would be compulsory high-school reading.

jdorfman 11y ago

I recently finished a Partial Hospitalization Program that taught techniques to battle distorted/irrational thinking. In the past I would just rely on my medication but this time I had to meet the meds half way. Without Cognitive Behavioral Therapy I would be in serious trouble (or dead). If someone here knows anyone who is suffering from a mental illness; this therapy could really help them get back on their feet.

amirouche 11y ago
I was said, it isn't for everybody, but what is?

parallel 11y ago

I can't remember where I read this but it reminds me of the quote "You've only ever experienced on thing; your own mind".

wordbank 11y ago
The Pali Canon is the first source of quotes like this though.