4 ms·

I immediately thought..."you must work in Vermont, Oregon, or a blue part of the Midwest, or some place like that." Judging from your profile, looks like I was

by rmxt 11y ago

I immediately thought..."you must work in Vermont, Oregon, or a blue part of the Midwest, or some place like that." Judging from your profile, looks like I was right. I wish this mentality and culture were more pervasive across the United States. EDIT: My point above was less about a specific "culture of respect for EMS workers", and more about a "culture of respect for non-law enforcement" in general that law enforcement does not always seem to have in the United States. Rethinking, it might not be the red/blue state divide as responders have pointed out. I still do think that there's a geographic component to law enforcement culture. I completely agree that urban areas, though a blue general population, regularly show instances of oppressive police culture. With the above, I was more trying to point out that in those areas there are generally less reports of oppressive and abusive police behavior. However, maybe the effect that I am trying to point out is an illusion of sample size. Either way, I think we would all be in a better place could we extrapolate the small-town police vibe to large urban areas. Yes, it's idealistic, but removing the adversarial relationship between big city PDs and their populations is something worth striving for. https://xkcd.com/1138/ https://xkcd.com/1138/

JshWright 11y ago
Why would that be geographically variable? I'm a paramedic in New York, outside of stories that very occasionally hit the various EMS news sites (like this one), I have never heard of a cop questioning a paramedic's authority to do what's in the best interest of the patient.
protomyth 11y ago
"blue part of the Midwest" I'm in a red part of the Midwest and the cops I know (many friends from HS or cycling in as security at the local workplaces) know when an EMT says "transport", thats it. It helps that some of the EMT's are former cops, but they know the story.
- msandford 11y ago
  Hilarious that rmxt thinks the police could only be professional in a liberal-leaning area. You know, like the extremely professional folks in Seattle PD, which is also in a blue city in a blue state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_and_politics_of_Seattle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_and_politics_of_Seat... Oh wait, I was completely wrong about that. http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Feds-findings-in-Seattle-Police-abuse-2407378.php http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Feds-findings-in-Seat... That's not to say that all the people who work for Seattle PD are bad apples that need to be fired. But I'm sure a few of them are, if the whole department is getting investigated by the Justice Department.
  - swdunlop 11y ago
    That Seattle PI article is from 2011; so if the justice department is still investigating.. They need to hurry the hell up. Also, Washington is only a blue state because of Seattle. It would be a swing state at best. You can see the evidence in its state legislature, where it has been in a near state of paralysis for years trying to figure out a budget that will satisfy "starve the beast" conservatives and Seattle's infrastructure needs.
  - rmxt 11y ago
    Maybe I shouldn't have included the "blue" remark in my original comment. Perhaps it's not a red/blue issue, but I do think that there's a geographic component to it. I completely agree that unprofessionalism can and does rear it's head in otherwise quite "blue" urban areas. Maybe it's a mere function of there being more cops in urban areas, and it's just that the bad apples stand out. (i.e., https://xkcd.com/1138/ https://xkcd.com/1138/)
    - msandford 11y ago
      I think it's more an issue of incentives than political inclination or geography. The police have a lot of power. Any investigations into officer misconduct (at least prior to widespread cellphones) generally resulted in the officer being cleared. That means that there's little/no incentive NOT to do something bad; the odds you get caught are minuscule. Even if there are no truly evil, bad actors the lack of a restraining force means that even with random events and outcomes, officers will tend to behave worse and worse on average. Initially bad events are outliers but as more happen with no repercussions the average slowly creeps towards "worse" and what used to be rare becomes commonplace. So to me it's clear that the police need better management from folks who really get a kick out of putting very, very bad guys behind bars. If a normal person murders someone they get the full force of the justice system against them. If an officer does so, currently they tend to get white glove treatment. We're seeing that the trend might be changing a little in Baltimore, but we won't know for sure until the trial is done. They don't have to be convicted in order to know that the trend has changed, but they need to be VIGOROUSLY prosecuted for what happened.
  - 11y ago
JeremyMorgan 11y ago
Yeah I think Oregon in general is "nice" for the most part. We don't have the usual EMS or Fire vs Police thing, nor do we have the career vs volunteer firefighting rivalries I read about either.
rayiner 11y ago
Because cops in Chicago never shoot people.

by rmxt 11y ago

JshWright 11y ago

Why would that be geographically variable? I'm a paramedic in New York, outside of stories that very occasionally hit the various EMS news sites (like this one), I have never heard of a cop questioning a paramedic's authority to do what's in the best interest of the patient.

protomyth 11y ago

"blue part of the Midwest" I'm in a red part of the Midwest and the cops I know (many friends from HS or cycling in as security at the local workplaces) know when an EMT says "transport", thats it. It helps that some of the EMT's are former cops, but they know the story.

msandford 11y ago
Hilarious that rmxt thinks the police could only be professional in a liberal-leaning area. You know, like the extremely professional folks in Seattle PD, which is also in a blue city in a blue state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_and_politics_of_Seattle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_and_politics_of_Seat... Oh wait, I was completely wrong about that. http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Feds-findings-in-Seattle-Police-abuse-2407378.php http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Feds-findings-in-Seat... That's not to say that all the people who work for Seattle PD are bad apples that need to be fired. But I'm sure a few of them are, if the whole department is getting investigated by the Justice Department.
- swdunlop 11y ago
  That Seattle PI article is from 2011; so if the justice department is still investigating.. They need to hurry the hell up. Also, Washington is only a blue state because of Seattle. It would be a swing state at best. You can see the evidence in its state legislature, where it has been in a near state of paralysis for years trying to figure out a budget that will satisfy "starve the beast" conservatives and Seattle's infrastructure needs.
- rmxt 11y ago
  Maybe I shouldn't have included the "blue" remark in my original comment. Perhaps it's not a red/blue issue, but I do think that there's a geographic component to it. I completely agree that unprofessionalism can and does rear it's head in otherwise quite "blue" urban areas. Maybe it's a mere function of there being more cops in urban areas, and it's just that the bad apples stand out. (i.e., https://xkcd.com/1138/ https://xkcd.com/1138/)
  - msandford 11y ago
    I think it's more an issue of incentives than political inclination or geography. The police have a lot of power. Any investigations into officer misconduct (at least prior to widespread cellphones) generally resulted in the officer being cleared. That means that there's little/no incentive NOT to do something bad; the odds you get caught are minuscule. Even if there are no truly evil, bad actors the lack of a restraining force means that even with random events and outcomes, officers will tend to behave worse and worse on average. Initially bad events are outliers but as more happen with no repercussions the average slowly creeps towards "worse" and what used to be rare becomes commonplace. So to me it's clear that the police need better management from folks who really get a kick out of putting very, very bad guys behind bars. If a normal person murders someone they get the full force of the justice system against them. If an officer does so, currently they tend to get white glove treatment. We're seeing that the trend might be changing a little in Baltimore, but we won't know for sure until the trial is done. They don't have to be convicted in order to know that the trend has changed, but they need to be VIGOROUSLY prosecuted for what happened.
- 11y ago

JeremyMorgan 11y ago

Yeah I think Oregon in general is "nice" for the most part. We don't have the usual EMS or Fire vs Police thing, nor do we have the career vs volunteer firefighting rivalries I read about either.

rayiner 11y ago

Because cops in Chicago never shoot people.