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This is a huge setback, both for democracy and for the french tech ecosystem. While the most preeminent french hosting and cloud providers (OVH, Online, Gandi,

This is a huge setback, both for democracy and for the french tech ecosystem. While the most preeminent french hosting and cloud providers (OVH, Online, Gandi, Alter Way...) have been quite vocal about the issue, none of the big french telcos (Orange, SFR, Bouygues) have said a single word about it. Shame on them! 900 tech companies, research organisations, and trade associations (so far) have asked the government to reconsider the law proposal (http://ni-pigeons-ni-espions.fr/en/ http://ni-pigeons-ni-espions.fr/en/), with not success, obviously. Several organisations I'm part of (including the two companies I have founded) where part of the movement, of course. There is still some hope that the law will be modified, by the french Senate, or that it will be censored by the french Constitutional Council, or the European Court of Human Rights. We also plan to start evangelising people on the use of VPNs.

fweespeech 11y ago
http://www.iliad.fr/en/ http://www.iliad.fr/en/ Online.NET is a big TelCo as well fyi. They own http://mobile.free.fr/ http://mobile.free.fr/ etc. But yeah, I've dropped my OVH/Online.net servers in favor of more Hetzner nodes with the exception of their S3 competitors [I just can't find any equivalent price/performance/availability]. That and I front end the S3 competitors anyway via a CDN over https which I think is fine with this legal framework [it just sniffs unencrypted traffic iirc] If you are making that kind of switch and are looking for bootstrapping automation for bare metal nodes at Hetzner: https://github.com/asconix/hetzner-bootstrap-coreos https://github.com/asconix/hetzner-bootstrap-coreos https://github.com/rmoriz/hetzner-bootstrap https://github.com/rmoriz/hetzner-bootstrap https://github.com/leitmedium/hetzner-bootstrap https://github.com/leitmedium/hetzner-bootstrap https://github.com/RedMoonStudios/hetzner https://github.com/RedMoonStudios/hetzner
malka 11y ago
I plan to use VPN in area that are NOT friendly with the OTAN, such as Russia. I'd rather have Putin spy on me, than my own governement, or its allies. He has far less influence over my life, and I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating.
- lloeki 11y ago
  > I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating I wouldn't be so sure, as France and Russia have a long, special history of diplomatic ties, dating as far back as when both were among the most influential countries of the Old World.
  - aikah 11y ago
    That's hardly the case anymore. Hollande clearly made the choice of being an atlantist. Whatever was left of the Russian/French cooperation it's gone.
    - lttlrck 11y ago
      such relationships extend and survive far beyond the short term of any sitting President or Prime Minister.
      - aikah 11y ago
        I don't think so, especially when they are that damaged.
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  >and I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating. You guys build warships for Putin's war machine which is murdering civilians in Ukraine, something the French knew they were going to empower someday with arms like these. You don't buy helicarriers for defense, you buy them to easily attack your neighbors. Ties between these two nations go back hundreds of years. I would absolutely not assume the FSB and DGSE/DGSI aren't talking. I would assume they are bosom buddies.
  - meric 11y ago
    Do you have a source for heli-carrier being deployed in Ukraine?
DyslexicAtheist 11y ago
my company is also registered here doing business mainly with mentioned Telcos. One thing which I'm wondering is how can this go ahead if they want to stay aligned with EU regulation. Wouldn't such a move automatically violate the "Data Protection Directive 95/46/EC" ? [0] If this moves forward I'll move the company to Germany because giving any more tax-Euros to such a government would feel like supporting a Stasi like apparatus. Also if this gets implemented then good luck for the future when Marie Le Pen's far right government gains further power in this economy (and they will because France is doing too little too late to recover from the mess they're in). Also the standardization body (ETSI) which does a lot of the global technical specs (3gpp) for mobile and M2M is keeping quiet on the topic of building privacy into the standards. I have brought up the lack of privacy focus in several work groups but somehow this is not a topic that gets addressed at all. Mentioned chairmen are of course deeply ingrained in the telco industry which again is in bed with government. And from a sales/marketing perspective it's easier to build/sell features such as Lawful Interception (LI) or Deep Packet Inspection (DPI) rather than a product which refuses to do something (such as pass on private data) The Charlie Hebdo team would turn in their graves if they'd know what kind of aftermath their deaths caused. It makes me sick beyond words. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive
- pgeorgi 11y ago
  Why would ETSI endanger its mission by making privacy a priority? http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_es/201600_201699/201671/01.01.01_60/es_201671v010101p.pdf http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_es/201600_201699/201671/01.... ("Handover interface for the lawful interception of telecommunications traffic")
- Lutrinae 11y ago
  At least from the article, it sounds like the current Charlie Hebdo team is also opposed to it...
throwaway41597 11y ago
The part about black boxes (L851-4) expires on December 31st, 2018. So if companies complain enough by then, there is also hope that it won't be renewed. But it'd be better for the courts to reject it like you said.

fweespeech 11y ago

http://www.iliad.fr/en/ http://www.iliad.fr/en/ Online.NET is a big TelCo as well fyi. They own http://mobile.free.fr/ http://mobile.free.fr/ etc. But yeah, I've dropped my OVH/Online.net servers in favor of more Hetzner nodes with the exception of their S3 competitors [I just can't find any equivalent price/performance/availability]. That and I front end the S3 competitors anyway via a CDN over https which I think is fine with this legal framework [it just sniffs unencrypted traffic iirc] If you are making that kind of switch and are looking for bootstrapping automation for bare metal nodes at Hetzner: https://github.com/asconix/hetzner-bootstrap-coreos https://github.com/asconix/hetzner-bootstrap-coreos https://github.com/rmoriz/hetzner-bootstrap https://github.com/rmoriz/hetzner-bootstrap https://github.com/leitmedium/hetzner-bootstrap https://github.com/leitmedium/hetzner-bootstrap https://github.com/RedMoonStudios/hetzner https://github.com/RedMoonStudios/hetzner

malka 11y ago

I plan to use VPN in area that are NOT friendly with the OTAN, such as Russia. I'd rather have Putin spy on me, than my own governement, or its allies. He has far less influence over my life, and I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating.

lloeki 11y ago
> I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating I wouldn't be so sure, as France and Russia have a long, special history of diplomatic ties, dating as far back as when both were among the most influential countries of the Old World.
- aikah 11y ago
  That's hardly the case anymore. Hollande clearly made the choice of being an atlantist. Whatever was left of the Russian/French cooperation it's gone.
  - lttlrck 11y ago
    such relationships extend and survive far beyond the short term of any sitting President or Prime Minister.
    - aikah 11y ago
      I don't think so, especially when they are that damaged.
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
>and I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating. You guys build warships for Putin's war machine which is murdering civilians in Ukraine, something the French knew they were going to empower someday with arms like these. You don't buy helicarriers for defense, you buy them to easily attack your neighbors. Ties between these two nations go back hundreds of years. I would absolutely not assume the FSB and DGSE/DGSI aren't talking. I would assume they are bosom buddies.
- meric 11y ago
  Do you have a source for heli-carrier being deployed in Ukraine?

DyslexicAtheist 11y ago

my company is also registered here doing business mainly with mentioned Telcos. One thing which I'm wondering is how can this go ahead if they want to stay aligned with EU regulation. Wouldn't such a move automatically violate the "Data Protection Directive 95/46/EC" ? [0] If this moves forward I'll move the company to Germany because giving any more tax-Euros to such a government would feel like supporting a Stasi like apparatus. Also if this gets implemented then good luck for the future when Marie Le Pen's far right government gains further power in this economy (and they will because France is doing too little too late to recover from the mess they're in). Also the standardization body (ETSI) which does a lot of the global technical specs (3gpp) for mobile and M2M is keeping quiet on the topic of building privacy into the standards. I have brought up the lack of privacy focus in several work groups but somehow this is not a topic that gets addressed at all. Mentioned chairmen are of course deeply ingrained in the telco industry which again is in bed with government. And from a sales/marketing perspective it's easier to build/sell features such as Lawful Interception (LI) or Deep Packet Inspection (DPI) rather than a product which refuses to do something (such as pass on private data) The Charlie Hebdo team would turn in their graves if they'd know what kind of aftermath their deaths caused. It makes me sick beyond words. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive

pgeorgi 11y ago
Why would ETSI endanger its mission by making privacy a priority? http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_es/201600_201699/201671/01.01.01_60/es_201671v010101p.pdf http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_es/201600_201699/201671/01.... ("Handover interface for the lawful interception of telecommunications traffic")
Lutrinae 11y ago
At least from the article, it sounds like the current Charlie Hebdo team is also opposed to it...

throwaway41597 11y ago

The part about black boxes (L851-4) expires on December 31st, 2018. So if companies complain enough by then, there is also hope that it won't be renewed. But it'd be better for the courts to reject it like you said.